Whitmer orders Michigan stores to refuse entry to those not wearing masks

Michigan stores and restaurants are ordered to refuse entry of patrons not wearing face masks starting Monday. Residents also must wear masks outside if they’re in a crowd. (Bridge file photo)

July 17 update: Whitmer tightens Michigan’s mask order but makes it optional when voting

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer ordered Michigan businesses to refuse entry to customers not wearing face masks, in an executive order issued Friday.

The order, which goes into effect immediately for indivuals and Monday for businesses, also requires Michigan residents to wear face masks outdoors if they cannot maintain six feet of distance from others.

Face masks were already required in indoor public spaces such as retail stores, restaurants and bars by a previous executive order, but compliance by the public was inconsistent and enforcement virtually nonexistent. But with the daily count of new coronavirus cases tripling in the past month, Whitmer’s new order puts the onus of enforcement on businesses.

“I feel for businesses that are doing all the right things…these businesses are also asking for tougher rules so that they can point to it and say this is the law,” Whitmer said at a news conference Thursday, at which she hinted more face mask requirements were coming. “Right now it’s required and for some reason people don’t seem to know that.”

Under the order released Friday, which you can read here, businesses that are open to the public must refuse entry and service to individuals who aren’t wearing face coverings. Businesses must post signs at all entrances instructing customers of their legal obligation to wear a face covering while inside.

Those exempted from the face mask requirement: Children under age 5, those who cannot medically tolerate a face covering, and those who are dining in restaurants or bars but only when they are eating or drinking.  

The order gives the state the authority to temporarily shut down businesses that do not enforce the mask requirement. Individuals and businesses that deliberately ignore the face mask order are subject to a misdemeanor and face up to a $500 fine.

The Michigan Chamber of Commerce understands the intent of the order and will  help members comply, said President Rich Studley. But he expects many questions about interactions between employees and customers at the entrance to businesses.

Studley said businesses around the state have been dealing with confrontations over customers wearing masks. Those customers may remain a problem — and that puts business owners in a tough position.

“What happens when a customer refuses to leave?” Studley asks. “Is it the expectation of the governor or attorney general that they should force a customer to leave? As a practical matter, how should they accomplish that?”

The Michigan Retailers Association said it wasn’t surprised by the order, which spokesperson Meegan Holland said Gov. Whitmer hinted at on Thursday.  But it’s disappointing, she said. 

“If someone doesn’t wear a mask in a retail space, it’s the retailer who’ll pay the price,” Holland said. “This is no time to be penalizing businesses when they’re in the middle of a pandemic.”

Holland said her members are worried about violence, particularly in stories like groceries with high customer volume. Confrontations already are a problem, Holland said, and stores have been forced to put staff into enforcement roles. 

“This is something they’re untrained to do or paid to do.

“We have been advocating for months now that if you’re going to have an order (mandating masks), it should be backed up by local police agencies,” Holland said.

Whitmer appealed to retail customers to act in the public good. 

“The heroes on the front lines of this crisis have gone hours without taking their masks off every day — doctors, nurses, child care workers, grocery store workers,” Whitmer said in a statement. “We owe it to them to wear our masks when we’re on a trip to the grocery store or pharmacy.”

“Masks can reduce the chance of spreading COVID-19 by about 70 percent. By wearing masks, we can save lives and protect our family, friends, and neighbors from the spread of COVID-19,” Whitmer said. “And by wearing masks now, we can put our state in a stronger position so our kids can return to school safely in the fall. For the sake of your loved ones, let’s all mask up, Michigan.” 

On Thursday, Whitmer had warned that K-12 school reopenings this fall were threatened by an increase in COVID-19 cases. Whitmer said that if Michigan families want their children back in classrooms in September, they need to wear face masks now.

“Michigan's fight against COVID-19 is nowhere near over, which is why it’s so important that we all do our part and wear masks when we’re out in public,” said Chief Medical Executive and DHHS Chief Deputy for Health Dr. Joneigh Khaldun said in a news release announcing the executive order. “Wearing a mask or face covering can significantly decrease the chance of spreading COVID-19 and save lives.

Democrat Senate Minority Leader Jim Ananich, D-Flint, issued a statement supporting the executive order.  

“So many Michigan businesses and their patrons have already been doing the right thing by masking up, but those that haven’t put us all at risk,” Ananich said. 

“Masks are not a political statement, they are a safety statement that you care about protecting yourself and others, and you take the pandemic that has killed over 6,000 of your Michigan neighbors seriously.’”

The Detroit Regional Chamber of Commerce on Thursday launched a #MaskUpMichigan campaign to encourage mask-wearing in Michigan businesses. The social media campaign asks businesses to share support for face-coverings. 

“If you want to keep businesses open, wear a mask,” President and CEO Sandy Baruah said Friday. “We think it comes down to that very simple equation.”

COVID-19 numbers across the U.S. raise concerns about the spread of the disease, Baruah said. The impact on businesses will continue to be felt until that ends, he said, and masks offer an easy way to limit the spread. 

“Health data drives the comfort level of consumers to be in the marketplace,” he said. “We need to make this real for people because not enough people are taking this seriously enough.”

“We want to move past this COVID crisis as quickly as we can.”

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Comments

Anonymous
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 1:55pm

Typo second sentence "indivuals"

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:01am

“This is no time to be penalizing businesses when they’re in the middle of a pandemic.”

"Holland said her members are worried about violence, particularly in stories like groceries with high customer volume. Confrontations already are a problem, Holland said, and stores have been forced to put staff into enforcement roles."

“This is something they’re untrained to do or paid to do."

Yet stores have security policies for theft, trespass.

True
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 4:08pm

"The best business advocacy move is to be able to keep doors open. In order to do that, people need to wear a mask.

We’re saying, you may or may not care about the society issues surrounding mask issues; you may or may not care about health outcomes; if you care about keeping your local deli open, your local Chevy dealer open, your local restaurant open, wear a mask.

If you’re in a private establishment, a grocery store or a restaurant, and if the proprietor is following a governmental order and you choose not to follow it, you can expect to be escorted out."

Sandy Baruah, Detroit Regional Chamber of Commerce, Commie?

Kathy Schurr
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 2:01pm

Thank you so much Governor Whitmer and all of our representatives in Michigan who are trying to protect us from this deadly virus!

Michigan man
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 9:19am

Geez, not everyone fits into a political bottle.

jane
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 4:55pm

This is not a "political" issue. It's a health issue as well as a consideration for others issue.
Why can't some people understand that?

Michigan Man
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:15am

Jane, you said "Conservatives", hence my response about political bottles.

LMAO
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 8:55am

Your comments are not "conservative" or political?

Gazelda
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 7:08pm

Maybe you should find a new source for news.

Entrepreneur
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:42am

You don't like or agree with Sandy Baruah, Detroit Regional Chamber of Commerce?

Anonymous
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 9:06am

Obviously people like Gazelda and Michigan Man do not own businesses.

Overdue
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 2:06pm

“The heroes on the front lines of this crisis have gone hours without taking their masks off every day — doctors, nurses, child care workers, grocery store workers,” Whitmer said in a statement. “We owe it to them to wear our masks when we’re on a trip to the grocery store or pharmacy.”

It's sort of a good start, but yes police need to enforce the order. Also let's be serious many grocery store employees are not wearing their masks or not wearing them properly, not to mention some restaurant cooks who prepare food for the public.

God Help Us
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:07am

You know things are really bad when Trump finally decides to do a photo op with a mask.

Anonymous
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:43am

Trump gets it. He just has to appease his base.

Michigan man
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 2:07pm

Great way to continue destroying the economy. Please stop using the term expert. These so called experts are bought and paid for shills and/ or ignorant repeaters. If you think THEY care about your well being....... you're sadly mistaken. This is tyranny.

Bianca Del Rio
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 2:25pm

Really Queen? And your proof of that comes from where? Your rear?

Jason
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 4:42pm

This isn’t the place for name calling and insults. Let’s try to stay civil. This isn’t Facebook

Michigander
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 5:53pm

I agree. Most masks are a feel good measure at best and a political statement at worst. Cloth masks do nothing to block a virus and most masks, cloth or otherwise, are worn incorrectly anyway. Even N95 masks don’t work if not fitted correctly, which a majority aren’t. Insanity reigns!

jane
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 5:01pm

Totally and absolutely NOT TRUE that masks are a "feel good" measure or do other to block the virus. Research has shown the opposite.
Not surprised you're from Michigan. We have a number of people who aren't thinking about the facts on this issue but rather reacting from some kind of atavistic instinct.

You have a point, though, about those who are not wearing them correctly. That is very frustrating.

Jeff
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 8:40pm

Jane,
You are absolutely incorrect - Even the CDC's research has shown that there is no use case for mask use by the public. They are only reasonably effective in a sterile environment. Learn to read.

Learn to Think
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 10:52am

Jeff,
What is your solution? Where is your proof your solution works? Please provide cites. Why is the US in the worst shape of any other country in the world? Is this all a hoax, with cooked up numbers by health professionals all over the country? Who is controlling everyone to coordinate the hoax? Are the dead bodies and crammed ICU's an indication of anything odd to you? Why did Trump send the naval ship Comfort to NYC? Is Trump in on the hoax? After all, even Trump has now been seen wearing a mask.

And you are?
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:12am

Where is the proof for your statements? Should we believe an anonymous poster here or Anthony Fauci with decades of credentials? Even the president seems to have come around to the efficacy of mask. Did you happen to notice how the US compares so extremely poor to all other countries in the world in confronting COVID19?

Anonymous
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:19am

It is best if masks are worn properly, and in general they do make a difference. It is a problem that they have become a political statement. They are not simply a feel good measure. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/21/880832213/yes-weari... "Take, for example, a meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them. The analysis, which was published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission."

Michigan Woman
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 9:34pm

The best way to continue to destroy the economy is to refuse to do anything to curb the virus so that it can continue to run rampant. We are only asked to WEAR A MASK for the safety of others - not make some life altering sacrifice. Get over yourself.

jane
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 4:58pm

Masks are proven to reduce the risk of both getting the Covid virus and spreading it to others (if you have it). To try to argue against that is not productive. There is research that confirms it. Those who refuse to wear a mask because they are afraid of "tyranny" are simply not thinking clearly.

Gazelda
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 7:12pm

Jane, are you able to site some studies or medical/scientific journals to backup the claims that cloth masks reduce the risk of getting Covid or speading the disease further. I would like to read more on this subject.

Jeff
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 8:41pm

Jane,
You should cite some sources regarding your claims.
You'd better ignore all those studies (including the CDC ones) that strongly disagree with you, though.

Anonymous
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 11:00am

Jeff, see the posts by 3per. He gets it now.

Wondering
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:14am

Wearing mask destroys the economy? How so? It seems obvious that wearing masks is the only way to save the economy. Can you cite an example about how your ideas work, perhaps naming a country?

J.
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:59am

You obviously have your head in the sand as to the health impact of this pandemic. How does requiring masks at businesses "destroy the economy"? Is it because Trumpers won't wear a mask and, therefore, won't visit any businesses? If so, it is the Trump supporters who are willfully destroying the economy - not the Governor's order.

Lauren
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 3:00pm

Sounds like a great idea in theory, but how will it work in practice? The governor is telling clerks and cashiers they must now act in a security role, which they’re not trained or paid to do. And if they can’t convince someone to put on a mask or leave, they risk getting fined — or worse, like the store employee in Flint who got shot.

The vast majority of stores and restaurants are already requiring masks, and from what I’ve seen, most people are complying. I don’t see how a punitive ruling like this will improve anything. Why should a business pay when it’s the customer who’s at fault?

middle of the mit
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 11:11pm

Did you read the article? The only people telling clerks and cashiers that they are now security are the employers.

If you don't want to pay the fine, the Store owner should be there telling the people coming into THEIR STORE that they have to abide by the mandate.

Who enforces "no shirt, no shoes, no service?" Who enforces "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone."

Buck up!

Stand up to your conservative customers.

Doesn’t matter
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 4:23pm

Are you NOT DEFUNDING the POLICE??
Who will ENFORCE the fine??

finngrl
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 9:06am

so tell us please, when was this announced for Michigan?? Never heard that.

Defund this!
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:19am

Private store owners, perhaps with AK47s, like the kind they bring to the capitol with such pride. Don't private companies do everything better than the government? Isn't this a business boon for private security companies and vigilantes? Shouldn't you be happy?

J.
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:01am

Simple. Exercise the 2nd amendment that conservatives so dearly love and allow store owners and employees to defend their places of business against the plague spreaders who refuse to wear masks.

middle of the mit
Fri, 07/10/2020 - 6:14pm

For months we have heard that business people don't need to be talked down to or treated like children and they know the best plans on how to run their business and keep their employees and customers safe.

Then the bars and restaurants opened and they found out they are the COVID super spreaders that the "experts" said they were, but they blamed the employees for it.

Now Governor Gretchen is doing the same thing Governor Greg of Texas is doing and even though she says they want clarification and a law to stand behind, we are told this:

[[[“What happens when a customer refuses to leave?” Studley asks. “Is it the expectation of the governor or attorney general that they should force a customer to leave? As a practical matter, how should they accomplish that?”

The Michigan Retailers Association “If someone doesn’t wear a mask in a retail space, it’s the retailer who’ll pay the price,” Holland said. “This is no time to be penalizing businesses when they’re in the middle of a pandemic.”

Holland said her members are worried about violence, particularly in stories like groceries with high customer volume. Confrontations already are a problem, Holland said, and stores have been forced to put staff into enforcement roles.

“This is something they’re untrained to do or paid to do. “We have been advocating for months now that if you’re going to have an order (mandating masks), it should be backed up by local police agencies,” Holland said.]]] I called this one a long time ago!!!! Blame the employee!

The problem is that conservatives don't like masks. And a lot of law enforcement have already said they won't enforce those mandates.

So you who think you know more than the "experts" but Can NOT deal with the violent non-maskers who are your customers?

Please put a sign on your door ; Welcome to COVIDville.

The rest of us will then be able to avoid super spreaders. Thank you for looking out for customers that are responsible.

Quick Cash
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:22am

No, the store sign should read, "Welcome to our COVID party!"

Windlass
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 5:00pm

Thankyou Governor Whitmer....and to the naysayers, Costco and Trader Joe's seem to manage it. Just say no.

LOL
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:53am

I know. It's ridiculous like crying, "What am I supposed to do if a customer doesn't want to pay me?"

chris justice
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 12:26am

For years we have had to have bouncers in bars to deal with the 1% of customers who can't go about their business without inflicting their baser impulses on rest of us who are just trying to take care of business.
I don't see that this situation is measurably different. It is the responsibility of the retail establishments to maintain order as best they can. You call the police only as a last resort, this is exactly not a job for the police.
The only tyranny i can see is imposed by people who want to stage a scene in produce over a mask while the rest of us are trying to buy our corn and potatoes and get the heck out of the store without bringing the creeping crud to our elderly relatives and people with chronic illness.
This mask enforcer role could be an employment situation for muscular and intimidating people to do a public service. Make lemonade from lemons.

Do not trespass
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:55am

That's right, hire bouncers if your local sheriff doesn't care about your business. Just wondering if businesses should without business taxes until sheriffs do their jobs.

Agree
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 9:05am

Yes, withhold taxes and campaign contributions, vote out the local elected officials that won't enforce the laws.

Naw
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:36am

How about this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/politics/trump-michigan-whitmer-be... ?

Someone like you with your beliefs must find it hard to deal with the truth that Whitmer and her cohort have high approval ratings. A lot of Republicans, like you, are secretly kicking themselves for jumping on the Trump bandwagon, just now realizing that his mystique and the stimulus money is gone, like the Emperor with no clothes. So many Republicans in power now will soon be out the door and maybe tried for their misdeeds. I wonder how many expect the Roger Stone treatment.

Thank you
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:57am

What do you do when people come to your house and misbehave? Unfortunately people have to call the police when confronted with violence or use appropriate force to deter the harmful behavior. Do you refuse to wear a mask when asked by a business owner to do so?

3per
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 10:53am

I almost hate to comment due to the amount of vitriol thrown at dissenting opinions but...
There seems to be some groupthink consensus that the "science" is settled on the efficacy of face masks and that's simply not true. Both the New England Journal of Medicine and the W.H.O. have released studies stating that, outside of a healthcare setting, public use of masks is simply ineffective and is more for psychological benefit.
Additionally, numerous infectious disease centers, researchers and doctors have issued points on disease transmission methods. Asymptomatic spread gets a lot of talk time but is virtually non-existent. Actual aerosol spread takes close proximity aspiration over several minutes of contact. This is why "social distancing" is the greatest hindrance to spread (that and regular good hygiene practice).
I have no issue with people wearing masks if they need to for their own peace of mind or issues that may cause them to cough/sneeze at inopportune times (perhaps due to allergies). However, blanket orders to wear masks particularly among healthy people just isn't supported by actual data. Consider the logic. If a healthy person goes out in the public unmasked and practices both social distancing and good hygiene there is absolutely no danger in transmission in either direction. Again, even the CDC has conceded that asymptomatic spread is a non-issue.
I'll say again, I have no issue with individuals wearing masks if they feel it helps but continuing to be fed the tropes about "the science" and the virtue signaling of advocacy without any critical thought or allowance for dissenting opinion by experts is disingenuous and only fuels distrust and dissent.
Open dialogue and less of an authoritarian stance would probably go a long way towards easing people's tension.

Shoegaze
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 12:34am

Please note:
Mike Ryan, MD, executive director for health emergencies at the WHO, explained that there are two distinct kinds of silent transmission: “asymptomatic” (spreading a disease when you don’t have symptoms) and “presymptomatic” (spreading it before symptoms start). Both are difficult to stop. Presymptomatic spread is believed to be far more common than asymptomatic spread. ... Studies have shown that people with COVID-19 can infect others anywhere from 1 to 3 days before they get sick, Van Kerkhove said.
Ryan also pointed out that in COVID-19, a person’s viral load, the amount of the virus they have in their body, appears to peak right as they get their first symptoms.
“That means you could be in a restaurant feeling perfectly well and just starting to get a fever, but you’re feeling OK, you didn’t think you needed to stay home. That’s the moment when your viral load could be quite high,” said Ryan.
That’s why masks are important, he said, especially when you can’t stand or sit at a distance from others.
“There is this period of time, you know, where even a professor of infectious diseases themselves wouldn’t know that I’m getting COVID,” Ryan said. “You’re not aware of your status.”
“It’s because the disease can spread at that moment that the disease is so contagious,” he said. “That’s why it has spread around the world in such an uncontained way.”

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200609/who-clairifies-comments-on-asym...

3per
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 8:25am

Good article and thank you for including the link to the full text. I have conceded in another response that we are still learning about the properties of the virus itself and the dynamics of its transmission.
I'm not a "never masker" (to coin a phrase) but I do think that dialogue needs to be open, honest and critical.
I've enumerated points in another follow up re: the constant moving of the goalposts, ambiguity and regulatory disparity. Valid points are made on both sides of this particular argument but it serves no one to be histrionic whatever their position.
All that to say thank you for your polite and reasoned response.

Good start
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:30am

In the meantime, just wear a mask if you shop, if not for yourself, for others, in case you happen to have the virus and not know it. It's just the right thing to do and takes so little effort.

No use reasoning
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 9:39am

3per criticizes mask use, but offers no alternative. It's always puzzling why "conservatives" want to hurt the economy and refuse to implement policies that have proven to work across the globe.

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:32am

3per came around. Hopefully others will too.

3per
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:02pm

Your response begs the question.
I'm not sure why you assume my political affiliation when I've given no indication of it. Nor have I ever indicated that I personally have not been judiciously using a face covering. I appreciate Anonymous' comment that "I've come around" but in reality I've never mentioned my personal use or non-use. As for an alternative to mandated mask wearing or their use in general I believe that's implied by the other medical suggestions i.e. social distancing and proper personal hygiene. (On that note a study in China has shown an astonishing percentage of fecal-oral COVID transmission. Here in the U.S. fecal-oral transmission of various contagions is also significant.)
But we could go on ad nauseam with study/counter-study on this forum.
I think maybe my larger point may have been missed and while I do enjoy the discourse I'll have to politely bow out now. I hope future conversations can be had without a litany of accusation/counter-accusation.
Finally and more generally, I do encourage support of local business. Wear a mask where required if for no other reason than to be a good example of humility. Learn where, when, how and with whom to fight your battles.
Be passionate but polite, trust but verify. Think critically, be honest, be consistent.
Best to all on here.
3per

LMAO
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:22pm

"I'm not sure why you assume my political affiliation when I've given no indication of it." Perhaps it's because you stated that you were in "total agreement" with this post which hits ALL the Republican talking points:

It’s not only “conservatives” who have issues with wearing masks, so please stop generalizing. If our Governor, AG and their supporting “experts” would have been more rational with their initial enforcement targets, they might have my support. Shut down health care facilities, but leave abortion clinics open? Restrict me from enjoying my boat if it was motorized? Allowing liquor stores to stay open and lottery locations to keep putting $$ in the State coffers? Ridiculous pursuit of a 77 year old barber?
How about you who thinks it a great idea for the employer and the employees to enforce the mask requirements step forward and take such a job. It’s always easy to pass the accountability to someone else.

--You are merely spreading misinformation, but don't kid yourself. No one cares if you wear a mask because of humility. You must wear a mask because it's a state order. Period.

Gazelda
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 7:25pm

3pers, great post and responses. I enjoyed reading them.

LMAO
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:57am

You're welcome. Hoped you learned from them and had a change of heart as well as 3pers.

Bob Dunn
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 8:41am

I would like you to show me where you found this research. "Both the New England Journal of Medicine and the W.H.O. have released studies stating that, outside of a healthcare setting, public use of masks is simply ineffective and is more for psychological benefit." I have not read anything of this sort what soever. In my reading I have found the opposite.

3per
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 1:56pm

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
That’ll get you started. I don’t have time to monitor responses so you’ll have to research it further if you desire. In the above article reference paragraph 2 specifically (the rest of the article, while informative, isn’t particularly engaging if you’re not a health care professional.
In general we should also bear in mind that not every health care professional is an “expert”. That being said and in regards to the comment above re: asymptotic/pre-symptomatic just a couple thoughts.
Pre-symptomatic transmission is a newcomer on the transmission scene and I would argue that the example cited is of an actual symptomatic individual (slight fever but generally feeling ok). By now assigning “pre-symptomatic” to the menu of transmission types it appears we are continuing to move the goalposts. (Remember the concern over point of contact transmission that isn’t even on the radar anymore.)
I’ll concede that we may be continuing to learn more about the virus although at this point probably not significantly. What I believe is most frustrating to people, as others have articulated, are the inconsistencies in “regulation”, the consistent moving of the goalposts, an ambiguous end game and the reluctance at best to address dissenting medical opinion. These issues apply on both a state and federal level.
Numerous medical doctors and epidemiologists have offered counter narrative only to be shouted down and often in ad hominem attacks. In such responses then it should be no surprise that people find new mandates dubious and question their foundation.
Neither blind assent nor hysterical dissent are productive but when leaders will not engage in honest and critical dialogue or disseminate meaningful and productive information and thought then, without judging intent, the very perception of their actions is authoritarian. When you couple that with arbitrary and fluid mandates you should expect that people in the very least would be suspect.

MGB
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:10am

From the authors of the NEJM article cited above:
"We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions.2,3 Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not.4"

Doh!
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:47am

Guess I missed that. Thanks!

3per
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:14pm

Thank you for posting that clarification. I retract my cited example.
For all who make it this far down the thread the NIH has an excellent abstract that includes diagrams on the properties of the virus and masks. If you don't want to wade through the more weighty research check out the charts and diagrams.
Ok, enough for me. Take care all.

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:25am

Ah yes, the dreaded "moving of the goalposts" whining. Those are the Republican talkpoints du jour, like we're asking so much. Oh the injustice and tyranny of it all. I guess that line of thinking doesn't apply to Roger Stone or Russian friends putting bounties on our troops, just the usefulness of masks during a novel viral pandemic. LOL

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:45am

Reasonable people can argue whether or not we should all wear clothing, but for most places, it's required. Isn't that an infringement on our rights? How is a simple face mask different?

3per
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 5:29pm

I should clarify a part of my comment. I did not mean to imply that, in regards to the above commenter’s post from webmd, the source was not a credible one. My comment regarding medical professionals not necessarily being experts was both conciliatory and apologetic.
Point being that even noted experts Fauci and Birx have disagreed at various times and over various points re: covid.

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:54am

Fauci and Birx are merely trying to keep their jobs to help the country. They are clearly experts caught between a rock and a mushy orange space.

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:02am

How do explain the failure of the US in keeping down the viral spread?

Jen
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:08pm

Good question, 3per, do you have an answer?

Mary
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 9:05am

Thank you for accurately stating the truth about masks. I have two family members who are doctors. They said social distancing is the method to prevent spreading the virus. Masks make people feel safer out in public, but in reality don't. This is not about political affiliation, but actual science.

MD
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:06am

Not true. I don't know any physician not wearing a mask when shopping. Please don't make up stuff.

Michigan man
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 9:24am

Yeah but if it doesn’t agree with the mainstream narrative, it can’t be trusted. Logic is an enemy, truth a menace.

Earth is flat
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:07am

I hear ya.

middle of the mit
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 5:16pm

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/surgeon-general-adams-trying-correct-...

Last March, Adams said during an interview on CBS’ “Face the Nation” that “masks do not work for the general public and preventing them from getting coronavirus.”

However, Adams said that the Trump administration is “trying to correct” its mixed messaging on masks during his Sunday morning appearance on the program. The surgeon general’s remarks came a day after President Trump sported a mask publicly for the first time during a visit to Walter Reed Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland.

“We’re trying to correct that messaging,” Adams said. “But it’s very hard to do.”

“Everything we knew about coronaviruses before that point told us that people were not likely to spread when they were asymptomatic,” Adams said. “So the science at the time suggested that there was not a high degree of asymptomatic spread. We learned more.”

Adams added there was also a “very real concern about hoarding PPE” and “people dressing up in trash bags as health care workers” in light of shortages in hospitals and other medical facilities.

“That was a part of it, but the primary reason was because that’s what the science said,” Adams said. “And I want the American people to understand: we follow the science and when we learn more, our recommendations change. But it’s hard when people are continuing to talk about things from three, four months ago.”

“It will help slow asymptomatic spread,” Adams said. “It will help with us reopen churches and schools and have prom next year and have football in the fall.”

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:36am

"This is why 'social distancing' is the greatest hindrance to spread (that and regular good hygiene practice)."

3per, that is your solution? Limiting how many people can shop and policing their distances?

10x25mm
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 12:38pm

Is anyone vetting the the dubious references our "science governor" is using to justify her XO's? Seriously, a study of Jena, a lilly white town that was high tech by comparison to Michigan even back when it was run by the Stasi? Brought to us by the deep thinkers at Vox.eu without any semblance of peer review? Modeling from the same clowns at the University of Washington who predicted 2.2 million dead from COVID-19 a couple of months ago? They couldn't predict the time of day. Pronouncements from the chief economist at the killer squid of Wall Street? Tell me they don't have an overwhelming financial interest in getting a gullible public to believe their ever more creative lies.

If Trump claimed any of these references every media outlet would be screaming "without evidence". It is pretty clear that our science governor has issued so much blather that the media and public in Michigan are now fully anesthetized.

Stazi
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:58am

10x25mm, are you wondering the same for Arizona, biggest hotspot in the world?

Finn
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 1:30pm

Tyranny. I will be doing business in Ohio until I can move. If they force the same thing, same plan.

No loss
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:15am

That's fine. We will attract people from Ohio who want a "Pure Michigan" shopping experience.

Jake K
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 2:49pm

It’s not only “conservatives” who have issues with wearing masks, so please stop generalizing. If our Governor, AG and their supporting “experts” would have been more rational with their initial enforcement targets, they might have my support. Shut down health care facilities, but leave abortion clinics open? Restrict me from enjoying my boat if it was motorized? Allowing liquor stores to stay open and lottery locations to keep putting $$ in the State coffers? Ridiculous pursuit of a 77 year old barber?
How about you who thinks it a great idea for the employer and the employees to enforce the mask requirements step forward and take such a job. It’s always easy to pass the accountability to someone else.

3per
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 1:01pm

Huzzah! Total agreement.

Anonymous
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:13am

Poor babies! Baby boomers never grew up.

Idk
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 3:02pm

Isn't it a better idea to come in contact with virus and possibly get covid during this time? Why put it off until fall/winter?

Martin J.
Sat, 07/11/2020 - 4:31pm

No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service! You can get the same ticket for being a jerk about spreading your toe jam. It's basic public health. Good job governor!

Mike
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 6:21am

Such a bad decision by the Governor to force businesses to enforce her laws or face criminal charges and/or loss of operating licenses. I want to see the police arrest her when she fails to wear a mask in public and also arrest any staff for not forcing her to wear one too while they are at it.

LOL
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:26pm

Mikey, somebody didn't read the order.....

Anonymous
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 11:00am

Mike, do you feel the same way about food safety laws in restaurants?

John Smith
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 9:25am

Masks should be worn by all

Marlene Augst
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 10:31am

The community at large is NOT at risk of dying. There is all kind of proven science as to whose at risk. And those chronic illnesses resulting in severe reactions and death are 97% self inflicted health issues. The average death rate is 3 years past the average life span. This is placating to a select group at the expense of everyone else. This is how immune system works, and wearing masks is unhealthy for healthy people.

I call BS
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:32pm

Marlene, you sound like you favor eugenics. Why does the US have the highest number of new infections and the highest number of deaths from Covid all over the world? Please don't give us the "more testing" excuse. There is a higher percentage of new infections among those tested than in previous tests. Wearing a mask is just the opposite, it's healthy. Even keeps down dust inhalation.

LOL
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 5:37pm

You missed the whole point of Marlene. She said, "The community at large is NOT at risk of dying." They must consist of vampires. LOL

Anna
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 12:45pm

Its time to stop making masks a political issue and for everyone to pull up their big boy pants and do their part. If enough grocery workers get sick guess what...the store closes then where do you go for food? Think about that because it's a real possibility.

The governor gave us all a chance to act like responsible but some are just rebellious so because of them this order is in place.

Not wearing masks could jeopardize are kids education, keep the virus alive for god knows how long, and cause grave illness and even dealth. Dont be selfish...its not all about you. It's doing your part to stop the spread for all. Do your part!

Michigander
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 4:45pm

I think it’s really fairly simple.

What is the peacemaking, caring thing to do when asked to wear a mask that might reduce the spread of a disease that is deadly to at least some people?

Seriously People
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 7:23pm

Just keep giving up your freedoms a little more each day, it's just a simple do this or do that right? Nothing to worry about, just keep doing everything they want you to do. And for how long? It's a virus window lickers, it is NEVER going away. This fall, and next spring, when the flu and cold season comes, this will be back. Just keep wearing your homemade, useless masks the rest of your life. My guess is, this all goes away after the election.

Give it up
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:40pm

You give far more freedom away to Google than you do to the government or your fellow citizens, but keep thinking you are some revolutionary hero, if it makes you feel better. Just wondering why you say this: My guess is, this all goes away after the election. Is it because you think Trump will lose? What will happen to the virus after the election? I've heard that Republican talking point from many people. I've also heard Trump say the virus was just going to magically disappear and that the virus was under control. You and the president seem to think you know the virus, and perhaps the heart of Putin, in ways that are so different from reality.

LMAO
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 7:03pm

Don't mind him. He's just channeling Chuck Woolery, Trump's buddy from the Love Connection, who thinks he's smarter than Fauci.

Michigan Man
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 10:26am

Although I truly believe most mask wearers hearts are in the right place, they simply don't know any better. If you research well beyond the mainstream TV & mainstream social media it's easy to find the real agenda for this current tyranny. Ask yourself a couple simple questions to start - Do you trust the government? Do you trust the media? Logic tells you absolutely not, but as we know logic is the enemy, truth a menace.

I call BS
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 9:28am

So we need to look beyond well-respected scientists with decades of experience working under both Republican and Democratic administrations and believe conspiracy theorists from unknown sources, probably from other countries that want to destroy us?

As far as trusting the government, every time you buy a can of beer or bottle of whiskey, you can be assured of the amount of alcohol in that can because it is regulated by the government. The same can be said about all regulations, unless you believe the unscrupulous Republican idiotic notion of industries self-regulating and have ex-industry CEOs installed as government regulators of the agencies they dream to destroy. Enough said about trusting the government. Government is good until Republicans take charge. They unabashedly and proudly proclaim they are for shrinking government until they can drown it in a bathtub. Talk to hypocritical Grover Norquist about that, you know the guy who claimed to be against government handouts, but made millions from government handouts.

Anonymous
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 9:32am

Michigan Man,
We trust government when we drive on the correct side to the expressway. We don't trust individuals that choose not to follow those rules.

John S.
Sun, 07/12/2020 - 9:34pm

The governor's order is sensible, even if further evidence shows that masks are only partly effective. What's the cost of wearing a mask? A few dollars and some inconvenience till the virus is under control? During a pandemic, this is a very modest use of the state's police power to protect public health. I do not understand those who are making a big deal over almost nothing. Wait till people are told that they must get vaccinated. The state to protect public health can also enact a mandatory vaccination law and use its police powers here (Jacobson v. Massachusetts). Two of the main benefits of government are its responsibilities to protect public safety and public health.

Julie Hurford
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:35am

I agree with this move - but recommend some accommodation for emergencies/bad luck, such as emergency masks, customer assistance.

I'm very grateful for all the essential workers and compliant folks. Hope the rest step up.

Jake K
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:44am

This is awesome. Retail workers enforcing the mask requirement. Great. How about the Governor's kids be the first to assume such a role at the various retail store entrances...or even better, the Governor herself, the ankle-biting AG or others issuing the orders?? In what reality are they living?

Jim
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:44pm

Why is it so hard? Do let just anyone into your home?

Michigan man 2020
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 10:49am

Of course there seems to be A LOT of Lefty ideals here. Likely censorship. There are documented treatments by DOCTORS that work: the combo tx with hydroxychloroquine, the combo tx with a asthma medication. Lets use these!! What are we supposed to do? Just conform to this nonsense until it "goes away," or we get this "vaccine?" HA.
Lets be smart and use these things that work while treating this virus like the flu. One thing is for sure: I will not be taking the vaccine.
When can we just go back to being a sane people in this country?
Dear God help us.

You first
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 12:47pm

Censorship??? There can be severe side effects to those human experiments far greater than wearing a mask. So mask up, that's an executive order!

4REHIL
Mon, 07/13/2020 - 11:11pm

Just my 2 cents, but honestly, I feel that this pandemic would have been taken more seriously, if from the get go the governor wouldn’t have let people go up north to their vacation homes from the COVID hotspots downstate. It’s also hard when you know the numbers are exaggerated. A friends brother-in-law is a mortician. He states that all the deceased are listed as COVID , no matter the actual cause of death. I have a friend who is an EMS worker. She contracted the virus and then her husband. She faired better than he did as he ended up in the hospital a couple of times but is now recovered thank goodness! I know it’s real but it’s hard to trust just how serious it is, when you know you are being lied to for either political or monetary gain.

Science
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 9:46am

So you get all your facts from friends of friends of friends? Snowbirds and people from all over the country went to their northern Michigan homes, not just people from downstate. Was the governor supposed keep them out too or is that the president's job? What good was it to close a few borders, but let airline passengers fly in from other countries and across our country? This has been an ad hoc mess from the start and we are still doing worse than all the other countries of the world. Given what is happening, I fully support Whitmer's efforts.

Chris
Tue, 07/14/2020 - 9:43am

Hey Gretch...Did you say this BEFORE you called these "heroes" racist and told them they needed to take your Implicit Bias training? And didn't you say you were in favor of defunding the police? Why would anybody want to do anything for you considering the comments you've been making.

“The heroes on the front lines of this crisis have gone hours without taking their masks off every day — doctors, nurses, child care workers, grocery store workers,” Whitmer said in a statement. “We owe it to them to wear our masks when we’re on a trip to the grocery store or pharmacy.”

Jennie B
Wed, 07/15/2020 - 11:27am

Chris, you seem stressed. I understand because we all are. Take a breath. Maybe meditate. We are just saying everyone needs to take appropriate precautions to reopen our economy and schools. What is the alternative? This isn't some grandiose ideological battle. It's just trying to get back to some sense of normalcy that we all want.

Jane
Thu, 07/16/2020 - 7:36pm

E have a place in the UP that does not practice distencing or masks it’s a golf course where the bar is full bar tenders don’t wear masks Patton’s come in with no masks stand around and drink what can be done