‘Operation Gridlock’ protest of Gov. Whitmer stay-home order jams Lansing

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. (Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. (Bridge photo by Riley Beggin) 

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

SLIDESHOW: “We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. ​(Bridge photo by Dale Young)

LANSING — A parade of cars clogged streets around the Michigan Capitol Wednesday, honking horns and sporting handmade signs with slogans like “tyranny worse than the virus” and “honk if you love liberty.”

They were joined by at least 200 others who walked around the Capitol grounds on foot — few wearing protective face masks, many waving Trump flags and some toting rifles — breaking the social distancing guidelines recommended to limit the spread of the coronavirus, despite organizers warning against it.

The group, organized by the activist group the Michigan Conservative Coalition, protested the expanded stay-home order issued last week by Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. The order extends the restrictions first put into place on March 24, but adds restrictions to some stores, bars travel between homes and forbids the use of motorized boats.

“We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said Matt Seely, one of the organizers of the protest. “This idea of locking people into their homes and taking away their civil liberties is unsustainable.”

The coronavirus has infected at least 27,000 state residents and killed more than 1,700 since March 10. Cases have plateaued in recent days, but Seely noted the virus is not going away.

"We’re going to have to learn to live our lives with it. Do proper social distancing, follow CDC guidelines for safe practices, and as a result of that, we can slow the spread but at the same time have as close to a normal life as possible.”

Hours after the rally, Whitmer told reporters the rally "is going to come at a cost to people's health." Other groups, including the progressive Progress Michigan and Michigan Nurses Association, agreed.

"The sad irony here is that the protest was that they don't like being in this stay-home order and they may have just created a need to lengthen it," Whitmer said at an afternoon press conference.

The Michigan State Police estimated up to 4,000 people attended the protest. Despite protests on the Capitol lawn, police did not issue any citations for violating the executive order. "We are processing one arrest for an incident that occurred between two protesters," spokesperson Shanon Banner told Bridge. "The majority of demonstrators remained in their vehicles."

Sparrow Hospital, just a mile down the road from the Capitol building, had a line of cars bumper to bumper outside its campus. Entrances remained accessible and there were no issues with people being able to access the hospital, spokesperson John Foren said. However, "we have been concerned about ambulances getting caught up in congestion on local streets," he said.

Shelly Vanderwerff came from Zeeland for the protest. She was laid off from her job at a greenhouse and is hoping to get work at a local pet grooming business when small businesses are allowed to reopen. She hopes Whitmer will allow small businesses in areas with few coronavirus cases to reopen when the new stay at home order expires at the end of the month.

"A lot of (small businesses) are suffering because being totally shut down," Vanderwerff said. "We can take the precautions, but let places open up at least slowly that need to be able to survive in the midst of this shutdown."

A parade of cars clogged streets around the Michigan Capitol Wednesday, honking horns and sporting handmade signs with slogans like “tyranny worse than the virus” and “honk if you love liberty." (Bridge photo by Riley Beggin)

House Speaker Lee Chatfield, R-Levering, opposes some of the restrictions and told reporters Wednesday he trusted protestors to demonstrate safely. 

"There's nothing more American than people exercising their constitutional rights to petition their government and make sure their voice is being heard. That's what we're seeing today," he said. "We've seen people across the entire state have their livelihoods taken away. They're being told they can't work their job and take care of their family, and I think that's a problem."

Whitmer has said opening up limited parts of the state to business right now would be premature and could cause a second wave of the virus that would overwhelm struggling hospital systems. She said at a press briefing Wednesday afternoon that "was really disappointed to see people congregating, not wearing masks" during the protest. 

"I understand the frustration that people are feeling," Whitmer said. "I’m frustrated too. None of us wants to be here, in this moment, but we are. And we have to do the best that we can.”

On Monday, Whitmer accused the family of U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos of helping fund the protest: “I think it’s really inappropriate for a sitting member of the United States president’s cabinet to be waging political tax on any governor," she said. The DeVos family denied the accusation.

Dr. Joseph Eisenberg, chair of the epidemiology department at the University of Michigan, told Bridge he understands people’s frustration with the ban on motorized boating and professional lawn care services — practices he said are “virtually zero risk” because they are socially distant activities.

Drivers honked horns and sported handmade signs with slogans like “tyranny worse than the virus” and “honk if you love liberty." (Bridge photo by Riley Beggin)

But to be able to open up parts of the economy, even low-risk businesses, he said, “then we really need to have the testing in place to make sure that any relaxation of the social distancing doesn’t result in a new exponential increase in cases.”

In rural areas where there are few confirmed cases, that may be because there actually are few cases or because there’s little testing there, Eisenberg said. 

When widespread testing is available, it will be easier to assess the risk and determine when it’s safe to reopen businesses. 

Limits testing capacity have been a problem across the country, as demand for the materials needed to perform tests has well outpaced supply. Michigan has lagged behind some other states in testing, Eisenberg said. 

The state recently announced 13 new testing locations across the state, which officials say will increase testing capacity by about 40 percent.

Cars and trucks clogged Michigan Avenue in Lansing on Wednesday. (Bridge photo by Riley Beggin)

The protest was organized by the activist group Michigan Conservative Coalition. (Bridge photos by Riley Beggin)

Some protesters walked around the Capitol grounds on foot. The protest was organized by the activist group Michigan Conservative Coalition. (Bridge photos by Riley Beggin)

Facts matter. Trust matters. Journalism matters.

If you learned something from the story you're reading please consider supporting our work. Your donation allows us to keep our Michigan-focused reporting and analysis free and accessible to all. All donations are voluntary, but for as little as $1 you can become a member of Bridge Club and support freedom of the press in Michigan during a crucial election year.

Pay with VISA Pay with MasterCard Pay with American Express Donate now

Comment Form

Add new comment

Dear Reader: We value your thoughts and criticism on the articles, but insist on civility. Criticizing comments or ideas is welcome, but Bridge won’t tolerate comments that are false or defamatory or that demean, personally attack, spread hate or harmful stereotypes. Violating these standards could result in a ban.

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
This question is for testing whether or not you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.


Don't tread on us
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 12:45pm

Saw on TV, what 20 vehicles parked by the capitol. Yawn

Tyrannical Trump!
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 9:27pm

President Donald Trump threatened Wednesday to apply a never-used provision of the US Constitution to allow himself to adjourn the US Congress and push through many of his nominees who typically require Senate confirmation. The move came days after he claimed that he has total authority over the states before backing down.

Yep, we should be protesting, but not Governor Whitmer. We should be impeaching King Trump.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 11:44pm

After the Democrats [led by Pelosi/Schumer] spent over three years and millions of dollars on fabricated investigations of Trump, ignoring all normal business of Congress, and during December and January forcing the attention of the Nation, all in Washington DC, on the impeachment of President Trump at the critical time of the Covid 19, are you whining about President Trump venting his frustration for over the denial of a votes on people legitimately nominated for established offices in the government and that Michigan residents voicing their frustration with our Governor and her high handed handling personal distancing in Michigan?
I like to hear different perspectives, I expect there to be some honesty of though put into remarks, not just a desire to hear the echo in the cranial cavern

Trump Gas
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 6:28am

Senate except for Romney suffers Trump Derangement Syndrome, neurotic love for Trump gas.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:46pm

Look up how many times our very busy and distracted president played golf in January.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 10:07am

Thank you for the reminded of the golf, that points out how that golfing had to be fit in between his meetings with Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix, the developing of the order closing the American airports to flights from Wuhan China [that is where the virus was spread from] and quarantine Americans being returned from China. While the Schumer, Stabenow, Peter were setting in the Senate listening to Congressman Schiff running on about impeachment, the President was only begun the mobilizing the government on battling against the China virus [a new never before seen virus] and put in motion the mobilization of the private sector and the heralded collaboration.
January proves the principle of inertia, a body at rest [the Democrats on three years of investigations and impeachment] at stays rest [continues to attack President Trump calling his action unnecessary and 'racist'], and a body in motion [President Trump working on the three years of government actions and starting the battle against the virus] stays in motion [began the preparation for the next step reopening of the economy while the other battles were still being waged].
Thanks again for your reminder of golfing, it created a pause and a new appreciation of what President Trump affected during January and how we need to look past his personal style and what he gets done and makes one wonder what he could if the whole of Washington was focused on their roles/responsibilities and not just partisan politics.

butch krumenaker
Fri, 04/17/2020 - 12:52pm

Since the Senate is being "dictated" by "Moscow" Mitch, very little of what is sent to them see the light of day....and then you throw in all the "clowns" of the g.o.p. (government of putin) and the anal kissers of the "Waffle" President....and that is the logjam! The only thing getting trough is the unqualified nominees for judgeships !

Sat, 04/18/2020 - 7:40am

You think that protest represented so much of Michigan? There are more people with COVID-19 in our state than in that sad road rage. Look beyond the end of your nose and TV screen.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 8:06pm

As best I can tell there have been more of those hospitals who had the virus [no longer needing special care] than then were at the protests [from what I saw on TV and Bridge]. There were more out fishing on our local lakes [more than 6' distance separation] in the weeks before the Governor ban the use of motor powered boats than at the protest, there haven't been any on the lakes since her order [though I have there have been more domestic police calls since the order] than shown in the pictures of the protests. As best I can tell the Governor didn't talk to any locals to see whether her order would improve separation or provoke separation.
Aside from periodic grocery shopping [milk, eggs, etc.] I have been house bound since the order so for me it is online [reading/commenting on Bridge getting added value from donations, and other reading and such, I have even discover there has been a few organizations for the past few years creating these oral histories of Vietnam war and other military events by interviewing veterans about their experiences and perceptions, very informative], TV, and novels. How are you filling your time, any ideas I should consider.

Fri, 04/17/2020 - 11:16am

I'm wondering who's landscaping or planting in Michigan. It's snowing profusely here in Detroit. Everyone knows, in the best of times that you're not supposed to plant until after Mother's Day, mid May!

Kevin Grand
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:50am

Those were the vehicles the media wanted you to focus on. That's why they were shown in the majority of the news stories covering yesterday's rally.

They choose to ignore the Gridlock on the streets surrounding the Capital Building.

It was called "Operation Gridlock" for a good reason.

Biden Whitmer 2020
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:38am

LOL Yeah, gridlock is what we need in times of pandemic. So glad you only control your keyboard.

Kevin Grand
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:26am

Yeah, that why I could convince five other vehicles with friends go to up with me.

It's amazing how well Freedom trumps facism.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 8:43pm

Not sure you're understanding ... words.

Trump Inc.
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:01pm

Fascism is government run by the corporatists, that's our current government.

Jimmy L
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:14pm

I'm not sure that Whitler is going to pass Biden's sniff test.

Stormy Weather
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:00pm

That never gets old unless you're Trump grabbin' 'em by the P'ssy or walking in on them nekkid because you run the pageant and think you own the teen contestants.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 8:10pm

What is disappointing is the gridlock in Washington DC with the Democrats trying to force none relate [New Green Deal, Kennedy Center special money] in to bills designed to help those suffering from the Covid 19 shutdown.

Trump Sucks
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 5:57pm

Trump is a wimp because he didn't call out the Republican governor of Ohio who is an equal opportunity dictator. DON'T TREAD ON ME!

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 7:45am

Protester Jordan Mazurek, 28, who cemented his hands in two 55-gallon plastic drums filled with concrete in the driveway of the Governor's Mansion, sits on the pavement while his vitals are checked by first responders, Friday, April 17, 2020, in Tallahasssee, Fla. Mazurek is protesting how Gov. Ron DeSantis is handling coronavirus in state prisons.

DeSantis is Trump's biggest protege. Trump failed to call for the liberation of Florida.
Ha ha ha

I pity the fools
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 12:47pm

With the legal alcohol and weed, probably half of them will get arrested for driving under the influence. The other half will get lost trying to find their ways home.

Jim L.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:06am

No - These weren't wacky weed liberals - These were conservatives. They work for a living and most likely have drug tests at their jobs. There was no violence, no DUI's, no traffic incidents (ok a cop did get lightly rear ended on waverly but that was probably one of the local liberals trying to join in) and overall it was an excellent event. Even funnier was Fuhrer Whitler's response to it all - She was clearly quite unhappy about it and her response has doomed any possibility of re-election - She is done.

Lisa S
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:35am

Wacky weed liberals, quaint. Saying Fuhrer Whitler is just stupid and not even remotely smart, we are not getting shot at or gassed. There is no possible way that our rights will be taking away. To much Bill of Rights in the way of that. This is a Pandemic, fucking duh. Being a Patriot is watching out for your fellow Americans and doing whatever it takes to help each other succeed, in this case staying home. Pull up your big boy britches and quit bitching like my ex mother in law and participate in saving our country. This protest was political just like the The Women's March was. It is stupid on all sides to do that crap. Plenty of pictures of people defiantly not able to follow simple guidelines to social distance, pictures of little kids. Real responsible like.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:41am

Women's march was much bigger and change ensued. That march will continue a blue wave throughout the country in November. Americans are woke.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:42am

Spoiled , entitled minions getting their panties in a bundle , because they are angry. Are these the folks be getting full salary unemployment + $600? ( this being how Trump expects re-election, through purchasing votes, genius though unethical.) Please, all of you grow up. Gov. is trying to stop virus any way possible. Remember MI is.. 3rd.. in COVID-19 deaths in USA ,1921 to date. USA is 1st in deaths 31002 from the contagion on the planet as to date.. That being the same country claiming most advanced health care system on same planet. If USA has best health care in the world, why do more die here, than anywhere? LACK of access and POTUS denial of virus until too late. See Michigan protest for more answers to this question. These people could be Darwin Award candidates.

Doby Joe
Fri, 04/17/2020 - 6:43pm

Pierre, you're a Chinese bot. Oh, I'm sorry- let me see if I can unleash as many personal insults on you as you did on everyone else to cover up for the fact that you don't know anything about anything.

Those people want their rights... and you reply is to belittle them and then try to bribe them with money? You are such a tyrant. Go back to China.

Jimmy L
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:15pm

Incorrect - Pandemics don't take only elderly+sick and obese people. This is not a pandemic, it's just another flu. More children die from influenza during the flu season than have died from coronavirus. Check your facks and stop smoking that reefer.

To Jimdote
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:03pm

Why have the hospitals been overwhelmed even after all the social distancing. That never happens with season flu. Facts are stubborn nasty things.

Doby Joe
Tue, 04/21/2020 - 6:18pm

Facts are stubborn things- and your statements were lacking any. Hospitals have not been overwhelmed- in fact the opposite has occurred and hospitals are being forced to make cuts and face the real long-term possibility of going under. The entire foundation of your reasoning is wrong, and thus all your conclusions that you reach are wrong. Sorry buddy- I know you wanted this to be a panic and for lots of people to be dying so that you could have the cover you needed to hide in your mansion living off your government pension, but thankfully it's not going the way that you wanted and this virus isn't as deadly as they said it was.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:57pm

Whitmer Rocks!

No Jim
Fri, 04/17/2020 - 9:41pm

Jim, "Fuhrer Whitler"? Was this whole thing supposed to be about Whitmer and her radical stay at home orders, "wacky weed liberals"????? "She was clearly quite unhappy about it and her response has doomed any possibility of re-election - She is done."??????

Um, there were similar Trumpers protesting in Ohio where the governor is a Republican!!!!! Seems you all want Trump and nothing else, someone to blow up the country with discord and disease, Make America Somalia should be your slogan, a banana republic.

Now all those foolish confederate flag waving rednecks running around without masks or gloves and not observing social distancing will spread their germs across the state where the rural hospitals won't be able to accommodate them and their families. They just set back all our hard efforts by a week or more. Plus they endangered children by giving out candy to them. Those children could become carriers of the virus and may not show symptoms. That's disgusting and immoral.

Facing the Fakes
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 12:56pm

"They were joined by at least 100 others who walked around the Capitol grounds on foot — few wearing protective face masks, many waving Trump flags and some toting rifles — breaking the social distancing guidelines recommended to limit the spread of the coronavirus." Fake news, 100 would be a very generous guestimate. You can see on WXYZ. One guy said, "I'm a Christian so I don't believe in fear." Of course, aside for Jesus shaking his head, that guy wasn't wearing a mask. So he gathers at church then spreads his germs everywhere else he goes. Pro Life? I don't think so.

Meanwhile others are working hard risking their own lives and the lives of their families to stop the COVID19 spread and tirelessly keep everyone alive. These others include healthcare workers and law enforcement officers who are being overburdened unnecessarily because of these flamboyant kabuki theatrics.

The contrast could not be more stark between evil and good.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 3:18pm

Yes, this is the face of the Trumplican Party now. Ignorant and proud of it.
OK - go ahead and be that way. Skip masks, glove and get infected. Line up for a Darwin Award.

BUT don't ask our hospitals, doctors and nurses to risk their lives to save you from stupidity. Just stay at home and 'get through it by praying it away'.

Fri, 04/17/2020 - 1:35am

Hello, I am the Christian guy that spoke with the news crew. I saw your comments and I wanted to share some TRUTH with you and maybe give you some background on me and what it is to be a christian. We are definitely not perfect as nobody is in this life. We try to live life always growing, learning, and becoming more like Jesus everyday. I have worked several years for the state of Michigan in the department of Corrections and in the Dept of Human Services. I also hold a criminal justice degree. I attended the rally to be able to get back to work as most people were there for that reason and to attend church. The news and governor are playing it off that it was some political event though which is sad . There were far more than 100 people on foot that day. The rally lasted about 8hrs and hundreds and hundreds of people came throughout those 8 hrs as I was one of the last people attending. Not to mention over 10,000 vehicles that blocked traffic all around the capital all the way to the highway and beyond. The media is downplaying those numbers though. The event went very well and was very peaceful. Most police officers were not social distancing or wearing masks either but they were very professional and seemed sympathetic to our cause. In regards to the church comment I truly wish I could attend church. We haven't been able to hold a service for quite sometime now. My church and many families are saddened that we cant worship and pray together because of this lock-down. I am pro life and don't wear a mask because if you knew more about Christians you would understand we are not to live this life in fear. Living in FEAR is a tactic of the devil and he tries to manipulate people by controlling them with the spirit of fear. We don't say this pridefully or in an ego trip or anything like that but we have faith in God that he is in control of all things. I hope that this situation gets over soon for everyone. I will pray for your safety sir. Even though I don't know who you are, God does. Thank you.

Here are just a few verses that I thought you might like to read. So many more in the bible that can give you amazing peace. I hope you will open your bible and read some more. God Bless!

“So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” ~ Isaiah 41:10.

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” ~ Philippians 4:6-7

“For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.” ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

“But now, this is what the Lord says…Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.” ~ Isaiah 43:1

“Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.” ~ Psalm 23:4

middle of the mit
Fri, 04/17/2020 - 5:03pm


The Bible also says this: Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Do you really think that God or Jesus wants you or anyone to die when you don't have to? Do you really think either one of them would want the world to run head first, nilly willy into a world wide pandemic?

Sure. You will be saved, But you will be dead also.

The lack of knowledge in Hosea isn't specifically addressing this particular situation, but I feel it is quite apropos.

We know there is a problem and if we ignore it or charge head first with no care, that is lack of knowledge. We would not be taking due diligence in protecting ourselves, our loved ones, our friends , our communities and even those we don't like.

Due diligence is NOT fear. It is the responsible thing to do.

What we need is some Jubilee!

How well do you think that Biblical principal will be accepted amongst the faithful?

No God, but God
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:11pm

TracetheChristian will be saved for the trash heap if the refrigerated trucks are full. Then seems like will be in the devil's hands for eternity, like all the others who pretend to be God.

Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:09pm

TracetheChristian, where does it say in the Bible to be a welfare queen or to spread disease? The GOOD NEWS is that God is thinning your herd because of your wicked ways, just like He did with the pharaoh's son. You might want to review that. Good day!

Love the show
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:04pm

This reminds me of the Tea Partiers who protested our national deficit when Obama was president and wanted to address pandemics. Those same guys then voted for Trump who immediately cut taxes and ballooned the deficit to never before seen numbers.

That said, to be honest, I must say the costumes for these little Trump pride parades are always FABULOUS!

Dave N
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 2:20pm

If it was drag queens dancing in front of toddlers, I’d bet you’d love it. Reading all the comments, if hate was a cure for this virus, most of you would have permanent immunity. How pathetic.

To Welfare Queens
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:28pm

You must be thinking of all the haters of Whitmer, 40 or so whiners who want bigger checks with Trump's little Handcock signature.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:43am

Love, the word is "Teabagers". That was a movement against deficit spending. LOL

Makes you feel ...
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:06pm

Not much of a protest. Ten million people in Michigan?

Tree Cutter
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:18pm

Whitmer and her gang are having a good chuckle as she spouts off some verbiage like “Let them eat cake”. She knows that a rock painted with a “D” on it will get elected in Michigan. That said, it’s good to see there’s still some folks that value freedom and work.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 2:15pm

Meanwhile all you've got is, "Let them eat COVID19!" Take your government bailout and stop being so greedy!

Tree Cutter
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 3:25pm

I’m not sure what wine to serve with “eating” my COV19. Any recommendations? Since I’m self-isolating with a unknown respiratory virus, I’d welcome your culinary suggestions. Oh yeah, pass my regards on to Gretchen for the fine job she’s doing testing for the Wuhan virus compared to other states. I think there was a good article on Bridgemi about it a day or so ago.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:25pm

Don't know what you're drinking, but you must be eating crow from the trees you're cutting. Your posts make no sense. You're "self-isolating with a unknown respiratory virus" and complaining that Whitmer is not allowing more people to needlessly spread COVID19? Your illness must be Trump Derangement Syndrome, neurotic love of incompetent Trump.

Tree Cutter
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 10:42pm

Please point out where I said anything about Trump and I said unknown respiratory virus because they will not test for it unless you are showing extreme symptoms. I know, since I tried getting the damn test. If you went back to the Bridgemi article a couple days you would have read Michigan is way behind administering tests for COV19, somewhere like 27th amongst all fifty states. I hope someone provides detailed directions for you to get dressed in the morning, since you appear to not to be able to deduce things very well. I self isolate since I have symptoms. I don’t require “gubmint” to tell me and I also assume that people driving in cars aren’t transmitting any viruses outside their vehicles.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 6:45am

You seem very thick headed with misplaced priorities. There aren't enough tests for anyone. Physicians and nurses working in the ICUs intubating patients with COVID19 who have symptoms and cannot get tests! Trump should have invoked and still should invoke the Defense Production Act to produce tests. We need at least 175,000,000 test to open our US economy. Trump failed on containment and testing from the beginning. Instead of all you whiners trying to make a quick buck cutting the grass for an old person, write your elected officials, starting with the WH, and everyone else, demanding production of test kits. We need at least 1,000,000 tests produced a day. Then we can all get back to work. Testing may or may not be better in other states, but Trump wants states to get tests from Ebay paying the highest price, states competing against states.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 8:46pm

You show a lack of appreciation for what it takes to create testing we never had for a virus that no one was even aware of to designing and constructing a system to manufacture and deliver an array of different tests for differ needed application to delivering the sampling equipment, the actual testing [sample analysis methods and equipment ] across all fifty states in a matter of weeks.
You seem to think that the application of science is like flipping a light switch in your bathroom. You must have slept through high school biology and chemistry classes, and never worked in science based industries or even listen to Drs. Fauci, Brix, and Redfield when they describe the tests and testing. You did hear that the current challenge is local utilization of the tests and processing.
I for one am overwhelmingly impressed by the those who have been able to create a range of tests, tests means/methods that turn their discoveries into mass use around the clock, by those that can create the means to mass produce simplified tests that make it possible to do millions of test in a week let alone a day, by those that are still looking beyond the tests many satisfied with to find screen criteria the can be observed through out the day and not require waiting for results to take action.
You sound like one of those that demand instant gratification, you want a million tests a day so you will through a tantum when it doesn't happen as soon as you said it. You show no understanding what it takes to start with a blank page [no idea] to a mass produced intensely scientifically based test. There must be some Michigan teachers that would cringe if they knew you had been a student of theirs.
As for you number of 175,000,000 test before we can open our economy shows you pulling that our of a lower orifice because it that ignores the simple truth that we don't need to test have the population at the opening that as the good doctors at CDC and NIH describe that it is smarter to target the testing and as anyone with any experience knows the production to use is a 'pipeline' that once it starts flowing will continue to flow deliver [in this case tests] everyday until they are no longer need and at a rate that the system requires.
Are you on one Governor Whitmer's advisory panels?

Bobby S.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:58am

Don't bother trying to explain to a democrat. They love being a mushroom & therefore they're incapable of having any thoughts or ideas of their own. If their supreme leader (Whitmer) tells them to oppose Freedom & Liberty, the democrat sheeple will obediently follow through. It appears that Whitmer is an apprentice of the Venezuelan dictator Maduro. Simply power hungry politicians.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:44am

Mushroom? That's how Stormy described Trump.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:16pm

So THAT's why they call his supporters fun guys and mushroom lovers!

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 6:28pm

You're clearly very ignorant as to how the "Government Bailouts" work. If you can not operate your business they do almost nothing for you. You basically get reimbursed to have your employees do nothing - except they won't show up because they're making more on unemployment!

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:30pm

You clearly don't know how war works. You fight, you sacrifice. You DON'T whine with pretty costumes and signs evoking revolution, like you pansies are being soooooo oppressed. Everyone is suffering. Suck it up. Take one for the team. Stop being so freaking selfish.

Dem Vet
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:37am

Yes Sir, right away Sir. Let me charge up that hill with the machine gun nest to take one for the team Sir. What's that Sir, you'll stay down here in the trench and watch me? Too bad the army surplus stores are closed so you can't pick up some more medals to pin on your t-shirt. Jesus, what a military drama queen.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:55pm

Just remember who is the Commander in Chief! Yikes!

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:24pm

So what is your sacrifice? Please be specific.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:01pm

I collect supplies for the ICU. You? Waiting for the sound of silence........

Gerald Sheds
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 10:47am

I live out in CA and don't have a very close family. My grandfather had a tree leaning on his roof. He called a couple companies but they were closed because of the Governor's orders. So he got out an old saw and tried to cut the tree himself, even though doctors told him not to exert himself. He had a heart attack. Is that a good example of a sacrifice?

I call BS
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:17pm

You lie. You told a different version of the same lie on another thread. There are plenty of companies open for emergency work. Nice try though. I wish I lived in Cali, but we're changing things. You'll be able to return soon. We're going to be progressive again, got rid of gerrymandering. Oh and why did you abandon your grandfather because we had total GOP control for decades?

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:17am


If you can't operate your business, there are loans to help you keep things in order.....if you get there before the real PEOPLE get there. That means you have to compete with BIG business. Good luck with that. And if you think I wouldn't prefer this money go to mom and pop shops? Ask your party why it isn't.

And the only reason that people are getting more on unemployment right now is to help with their rent, food, and debt that the economy that republicans have put into place for the last 40 years and the rulers over it still get paid! And to think...job creators espouse their vaunted philosophical and philanthropic efforts towards their valued employees to end up saying what?



And to that end Matt, the one thing you are forgetting. Employees don't have control over whether they get unemployment or not.


And if you are a conservative and want to buck the trend? Grocery stores, gas stations and farmers are hiring.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:22pm

But MoM Folks can get more on unemployment than working with the extra $600 than right now so why would anyone work?

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:58pm

The point is NOT to WORK. STAY HOME!

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:27pm

But Matt,

You are showing the world you don't know anything about collecting unemployment or what an employer has to do for an employee to collect unemployment ........what is that word that an employer has to give BEFORE AN EMPLOYEE CAN COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT?

Oh! That's the word!


Your employer has to give the OK for you to collect the unemployment.

You do realize they DENY ALL THE TIME, don't ya?

You really have a hard time grasping concepts, don't ya?

Jeff Hedges
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 2:42pm

Trying to contain a pandemic isn't infringing on freedom. Not pushing people into close quarters working conditions isn't infringing on freedom. People who think like you, and the people at this protest, you're the ones who are going to push things to the point where freedom is actually taken away. The sheer stupidity of trying to politicize a virus is a shocking low, even for the MAGA crowd.

Stop the Madness
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:14pm

America never seemed worse. I liked America when the last guy was president.

Kevin Grand
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:32pm

Took you long enough to post this today.

Now, when will Ms.Beggin write about the multi-mile backups on Oakland, Shaiwasee, Saginaw and Washington?

And those are the streets I'm aware of.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 7:01am

Did you want it posted before it took place? Karen, all you do is complain complain complain.

Henry Patrick
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:41pm

Seeing this protest warmed my heart. A bunch of patriots showed up at the capital, protested for liberty and freedom, and quoted from philosophers and founding fathers. They did so because they wanted to return to work so that they could put food on their table, pay their bills, and save for their children's future. They did so because they believe- passionately- in the freedoms in the Bill of Rights.

Whether you agree with their policy positions or not, they are Americans and are acting in the best spirit of what it means to be an American.

What is sick though is how some people on here comment about these people. Calling them names like "fools", wishing that they'd get arrested and thrown in jail, accusing them of wanting others to die, and other insults. Everyone should want this shutdown to end as soon as possible, and if not, you're the sick one. We can debate when it's possible and when the best time to end it is, but to attack these people for wanting to end it proves their point about this being less able safety and more about power. Tyrants don't care about these people, they care about power.

Whether now is the time to end the shut down or not, thank you to these great people for bringing up this debate and bringing up these legitimate views and interests. I hope that our elected officials listen to your concerns and do their best to satisfy them as best they are able to.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:36pm

Patrick Henry? More like Benedict Arnold. Nothing but a bunch of entitled toddlers who don't know how to run a business with trillions of dollars in welfare. Geez, if you can't make a few sacrifices for a short period of time, how pathetic are you? We endured the Great Depression and WW2. You spoiled little snowflakes. Don't you dare desecrate the honor of our forebearers who risked life and limb for our liberty. You only show your aggression when there's an African American president and a woman governor. You're all just cowards!

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 9:43pm

Yes. We all want this to come to an end. . . sooner rather than later. Which is why it's so frustrating that these so-called patriots are selfishly doing the one thing that we KNOW is problematic under the circumstances. Why can landscapers not work? Because they require lots of gas to power their equipment. Why no motors on the boats? Because they require gas. The gas pumps have been found to be a major way this thing is being passed along. And these people fueled up their vehicles to throw a tantrum that will likely mean that we're all stuck in this situation even longer after their selfish display causes this thing to spread even more. They got out of their cars and congregated. And, even worse, they showed just how little they care for the people who need medical care by blocking the paths of ambulances bound for Sparrow and even being in the parking lot and driveways, obstructing the path of patients trying to get the critical care they need. I might agree with you about the protest if they showed any respect whatsoever for the human lives at stake. But they took every opportunity to spit on people who need medical care. That shows the kind of people we're dealing with, and it's impossible to describe them as patriots. True patriots care about the well-being of those in their community. These people showed nothing empathy for their fellow Michiganders today.

Susan K
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 8:57am

This narrative that gas pumps are a major way this virus is spreading makes me want to scream! If that's the case there's an extremely simple solution. Carry gloves in your car. Before touching the pump put on the gloves, pump the gas, take off gloves, throw them away, get back in car, drive away.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:00am

I see the evidence of all of those "thrown away" gloves all over the parking lots. Really great for the environment, not to mention the safety of the workers who have to empty trash cans. As soon as you've touched the outside of those gloves to throw them away you've contaminated yourself and your vehicle. I bet those who live and work in Lansing really appreciate the virus spread in their community as those "patriots" pumped gas, went to convenience stores and restaurant drive-thru's. We'll just have to wait a few weeks to see a new viral hotspot emerge there thanks to the selfishness of these people behaving like crybabies at a social event. I can't do what I waaaaaant. Boo Hoo.

Moderate Don
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:44pm

“We want to come up with a game plan that allows people to resume as close to a normal life as possible,” said one of the organizers of the protest in Lansing on Wednesday. Who in the world would be so sick as to argue against this desire? To do what he wants is exactly what our elected officials should be working towards!

It blows my mind that sicko's out there would oppose this goal. Are there honestly people out there who insult this guy and disagree with him and want the government to not be working towards this goal? Who in their right mind would mock these people and fight against their desire to return to as normal a life as possible?

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:40pm

Sorry, you are not moderate. You are a radical. You should visit a hospital, maybe volunteer there, then get back with us. You are CLUELESS. Probably think this is just "seasonal flu". You are SICK-Oh.

Jack Bribem
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 1:48pm

those racists are wrong- tyranny is not worse than the virus- TYRANNY didn't KILL anyone and this virus is killing everyone, especially black people, just like OBAMA predicted it would when he banned flights from CHINA and put in place tariffs to bring our manufacturing home...

Clark Griswold
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 2:14pm

Love it

I know
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:43pm

Fabulous, the colors, the emotions, the rage. It's so exciting. All those men who leave their wives at home to be with other men, to display their raw masculinity. So.... lovin it.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 11:59pm

Is this some sort of homophobic slur?

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:05pm

Sounds more like a slurp.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 2:42pm

Just showing the uninformed and ignorant people of Michigan- plain embarrassing

Karen Dunnam
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 4:11pm

From the article:
"Sparrow Hospital, just a mile down the road from the Capitol building, had a line of cars bumper to bumper outside its campus. Entrances remained accessible and there were no issues with people being able to access the hospital, spokesman John Foren said. However, "we have been concerned about ambulances getting caught up in congestion on local streets," he said."

Might want to scroll through the photos posted to FB. At least two ambulances were impeded from using the emergency entrance.

Ignorance abounds
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:46pm

Probably some of the infected protesters who don't take COVID19 seriously. Oh well

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 4:34pm

What is disappointing is the impression the Governor leaves, she makes her pronouncements and then does nothing to help people understand how to implement them. There are many in the government that write and enforce regulations across our state, they regulate many workplaces that are highly hazardous, toxic, they have learned what people need to understand and implement government requirements, I wonder why the Governor didn't turn those experienced government staffers and ask them to help write the guidance for her proclamations.
Why didn't the Governor consider the confusion that would be created by an enforceable proclamation? Why didn't she at least prepare the government agencies to address the confusion? Why didn't she include those government agencies in the development of such proclamations to prevent/mitigate the confusion?
There are many experiences Michigan has had that could offer lessons for managing this crisis, I wonder when the Governor will begin using those with the experiences to help her help Michigan through this crisis.

You're Welcome
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:47pm


middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:02am


While I do agree that things should have rolled out smoother, I would have preferred that the order take place immediately after being proclaimed. But short of that, you aren't a dummy. You fully well know that there is no way in the world that republicans wouldn't have found a way to say exactly what you are saying even if she consulted YOU personally, duane. Isn't that what republicans specialize in, finding loopholes to the law? I haven't seen an insider trading scandal trying to make mammon off a crisis while you are an elected official on this scale in a long time. If ever.

but shuuuuu! don't mention that.

Either way duane, republicans will make a mountain out of a mole hill. Even if it involves fixing their roads.

Face it. The only laws you like to follow are the ones you write. And not even then. Because they are mostly about restricting rights to everyone else.

And here come the comments that say" The Governor is killing OUR ECONOMIC FREEDUMB! She is a dictator! She is a Tyrant taking our freedumbs!"

Fine. The Governor has made interstate travel legal. Move. Maybe to South Dakota where they just shut down a meat packing plant. But hey! They have Freedumb! There isn't a lockdown there. Then go. But when the virus hits, don't come back! This State isn't your home!

It will take time for this to work through rural communities. But it will. And then the deniers are going to have to adjust to reality. And they aren't going to blame FOX news or the President. They won't be able to blame CNN or the Governor except then they will blame her for not taking action sooner. They will blame all those who came up here after the action was announced and before it took effect.

I am telling you this because it is true, and you should believe it.

Pro-life for the living! WE would like to be included too!!

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:22am

All I suggested was that Governor Whitmer has knowledgeable people within State of Michigan agencies and she should use that knowledge to be effective so her proclamations are implemented effectively. I wouold expect your comments to be along the lines of why that approach was overlooked or wouldn't protect those in northern Michigan, and I offer my
ideas for such comment/criticism. I expected discussion how there are differences in the various parts of Michigan [Detroit has a difference social/travel culture than northern Michigan] and that there should be some accommodation for those differences [there more small multi-product store vs big box stores in northern Michigan than in Wayne/Oakland/Macomb counties], the reality in a small 2000 sqft store it is harder to block of section with none approved products vs a 100,000 sqft stock that has isles of none approved products. I expected comments that the application of the Governor's proclamation is self evident, but we have seen how large organizations [with legal staffs] could make interpretations that the Governor had to personally take the time to clarify. I expected some comments that there had been no opportunity for public comment on requirements that are to control what people are doing in their homes.
I haven't said until know, but I don't think Governor Whitmer has grasp what her role and responsibilities are as Governor. For yor edification, the role of the Governor is to lead/be a leader, to make choices/decisions, to consider the what is to be changes by her choices and to consider the unintended consequences. The Governor's is not to be the source of ideas/answers, it is to chose the best answer available to achieve the desired results while minimizing/mitigating the unintended consequences. By all indication our Governor is trying to make everyone believe she is omnificent, she tells everyone her answer [more extreme than any others] and she is the only one to clarify what she meant and how people should act.
The most disappointing is that she doesn't seem to be learning as she acts. No matter what we may think of President Trump we are hearing for those 'experts' [Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix] is that Trump calls in the experts and asks what they thing and recommend, he listens and questions, he takes their advice, and he puts them next to him and gives the media unrestricted access to those experts [we get to see there is differences of opinions]. He demonstrates a respect for the knowledgeable people, he mobilizes the government resources and even the private section. Governor Whitmer goes before the public to make her pronouncement and has a staffer sit near her to read a prepared statement.
The test for our Governor is what she does after the virus is under control, whether she charters a team to review events and to create a guide for core actions and sequence for the State for the next severe unplanned event happens. If by early 2022 the State has not released a Emergency response plan for extreme unplanned event then Gretchen Whitmer has failed to learn the role/responsibilities of Governor [Snyder failed to learn].

As we have talked before, truth is relative [even in science, gravity] to ones perspective.

Oh Dear
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:08pm

More words, less substance. Looks like blah blah blah. Try paragraphs, better organization, logic.

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 2:00pm


I agreed with you on the roll out. I simply pointed out the fact that it wouldn't mattered if she did what you and I both think she should have done. You and the rest of the republicans on this board would be saying exactly the same things you are now. And if she wouldn't have shut anything down and the State was more inundated than it is now, guess who they would blame?

As far as big box stores vs small multi product stores up here vs down state? You haven't been up here in a while have ya? Sonny Perdue said it best, there is no guarantee for small businesses.


Perdue said, “In America the big get bigger and the small go out. I don’t think in America we, for any small business, we have a guaranteed income or guaranteed profitability.”]]]]

Those small businesses that you cherish so much? They have mostly been replaced by Home Despot, Fall greens and Write off aid. I know right! American competition!

The facts are duane, is even in smaller stores there will be less people. And in those smaller stores there is ALWAYS better service. Which means that customers don't have to touch a thing. The clerks will do it for them.

You say the Governor doesn't have a grasp on what she is doing, I would like your opinion on how you think the President, " the only one with the smarts that is smarter than the generals, smarter than the doctors because his uncle was an MIT graduate", is doing with his job.

As we have talked before duane, truth is only relative to those who don't accept reality. If you are on the moon gravity will make you weigh 1/8 of an atmosphere. What is the definition of an atmosphere? It is what you weigh on Earth. But if truth and gravity are what I perceive, then maybe it is YOU who is wrong when I try to put on pants too small and you tell me they don't fit!

And maybe The President does weigh 230lbs!!

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 2:51pm


I am sorry that I didn't notice your "perception" of how The President was doing his job. I was too busy laughing at you still thinking 1+1 = whatever I perceive it to be.

Then I read your perception of how The President is doing his job. Does respecting the Drs include banning them from CNN or other news outlets because those same doctors have to tell the public that unlike what the President just said, masks are a good idea? Opening the economy by Easter is a good idea or anyother ranting mumble jumble that spews from the alt knowing one?

Does it include Mrs Kelly Ann Conway saying that there are 18 other strands of COVID=19 and the WHO should know their facts, but she doesn't realize that the 19 stands for 2019 not 19 versions of the virus?

Alternative Facts!


Pro life for the living!!! We would like to be included too!

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 7:49pm

Where you perception seems to be that a lack of knowledge of naming the virus is important, my perception is that the mobilization of the whole of government and private industries with the purpose of defeating Covid 19 virus is a significant accomplishment. Your truth seems to be that President Trump is failing because of what is said and my truth is about what is being achieved, where one Governor is claimoring for 40,000 ventilators and the federal government delivered sufficient beds and ventilators that no patient was denied the care the doctors want to provide.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 4:39pm

I am reporting the same comment that I posted yesterday as it applies here

For heaven's sake! Enough! Lay off the Governor and stay home. To all the people complaining about the shut down: 1. Do you want to be the source of this virus (since you can have it and not have symptoms) pass it along , and kill a stranger or someone you love ? 2. Do you want to expose yourself to this so you can die? 3. Do you not have ANYone in your life over age 60 that you care about and want to keep them safe? 4. Do you not understand how horrific it is to die of this--unable to breathe and with no family around? 5. WHAT do not understand about the DANGER of this virus? Read some science and some history of the 1918 flu pandemic. COVID-19 is FAR MORE contagious than the flu.

Shopping because you are bored, playing group sports at the park, non-stop visiting between households spreads this thing. How hard is it to simply act as a good citizen and stay home? Seriously??? This virus is like someone urinating peeing in a pool. You can be at the other end of the pool, but eventually the noxious substance will reach you. It travels.

If this is the hardest thing you ever have to do in your life is to stay home, not go to your cottage, not buy paint, etc., you are extremely fortunate. No one likes this but staying home is critical for safety. Your freedom to run around like times are normal ends where my freedom to stay healthy and alive begins.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 6:19pm

Rose please tell how letting someone in Menards or Meijers put a gallon of paint or bag of crabgrass preventer or potted plant in their cart changes the risk picture for contracting the virus? Or how paddling a canoe or kayak verses using a motor boat makes this more or less likely? Or if I go up north to my cabin and start feeling il, am I really going to go to the Reed City hospital or other small town health center instead of heading home, 2 hours south to be near a major center say in GR?? Seriously? I'm able to assume most people are able to resist licking their shopping carts or gas pump, kissing strangers or maybe even wash thier hands after shopping or even using their own judgement to avoid risky behavior, (maybe even a mask or gloves?), why such trouble imagining this? Or of course there's always the idea that if you are especially susceptable, obese, diabetic, high blood pressure and or elderly you should quarantine yourselves instead of expecting all of society to come to a halt? Just curious how you get there.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:49pm

Why would Rose waste her time on someone so thick headed?

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:28pm

Becuase neither of you can explain it?

You win!
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:10pm

Your prize is a rattle.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:51pm

Matt, you seem to think this is HIV.

COVID-19 is much more contagious.

Jim L.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:30am

Fifty percent of gays will infect themselves with HIV by age 50 by their reckless behavior. HIV is a DEADLY disease that is guaranteed to kill you as well as come with many, many, many health complications. Fifty percent of Americans will NOT die from coronavirus - It's more like 0.1-0.2% overall (look at the study in Germany which found 0.4% maximum in aging populations). So, no - Your statement is absolutely incorrect.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:19pm

You have a special skill at dribbling nonsense.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:23pm

COVID 19 is more contagious to everyone, just by coughing.

middle of the mit
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 11:15pm


Doing all of those brings more people to do all of those things. The more people gather in an area, the more likely this virus is transmitted. Figured that part out yet?

Kayaks/canoes Vs motor boats. The fist can be used alone and you don't need a dock. (the critical thing everyone needs to touch to use a motor boat) And again, the more people gathering around a singular area the better the virus transmits. Also there is the part of fueling, but to be honest it isn't as a gas station. That is why gas stations should have full service now.

As far you coming up here to your "cabin"? Stay home. I answered this a previous post that I replied to you on this very same thread, before I saw you have cabin up here. There is an urban/rural divide. And you are not rural. I am not trying to be mean. I am telling what I hear from people up here.

A lot of them think it's fake. But they still don't want you up here right now. And if it takes hold, it may not be mob rules, but you might find that that sign on almost every business door that says "We reserve the right do business with whoever we want" might apply to you all of a sudden.

Don't ask me explain it.

I am just telling you how it is.

The biggest part of the problem with rest of your comment is that up here, the elderly can't quarantine themselves. Our grocery stores don't have delivery, none of those fancy apps work in rural communities and they have to eat. That goes for all of the community that you said should self quarantine.

And we can't operate at full speed anymore. America relies on too many other countries for our supply. And Matt, meat factories are now being inundated and closing because their workers are getting this virus. In America.

Smithfield said it will close its giant pork processing plant in Sioux Falls, S.D., shown in a photo taken Wednesday, where health officials reported more than 80 employees have confirmed cases of the coronavirus.

This is what the American workforce has to look forward to just if we stay with what we are doing. Imagine that across the nation with a full workforce at full peak. Not to mention, how do we do that when the rest of the world and our suppliers are shut down?

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 7:25pm

XO 2020-21 was sold to the public as a mechanism to "flatten the curve"; slow down the development of cases so the health care system wouldn't get overloaded. Michigan had 1,328 diagnosed cases when XO2020-21 took effect. Today we have 28,059. Shelter in place may have flattened the curve, but it certainly hasn't ended transmission. Even if it were to temporarily reduce transmission, you would get follow on waves of transmission among the uninfected until the epidemic has run its natural course or 70% of the population is vaccinated. This has happened in every prior pandemic since the Plague of Justinian.

A vaccine is probably a year away, and a vaccination campaign will take months afterward. How long do you want to keep the economy shut down? The government can hand out free money, but they cannot conjure up goods to buy with that money. Eventually your local supermarket gets picked clean like those in Caracas. Think this is an extreme example? Food processing plants across America are already going down due to Wuhan coronavirus outbreaks. How long can food processors run their machinery without maintenance spares? That pipeline will start running dry in a month. Then you will experience widespread starvation in a land of plenty.

The people protesting in Lansing today figured this out.

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:21am

Do you hear yourself and understand what you are saying? You fully well admit that food processing plants across America are already shuttering doors because of sick workers.

Yet.....you want us all to get back out there and do what? Earn mammon so that we can get sick and/or die? What happens when we take your advice and the entire American populace or should I say workforce( or are we just consumers?) ends up just like the meat packing plants all across America?

Did you and those people in Lansing today think that far ahead? And AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH MOST TIME, how is America supposed to get back to full employment without wiping out our stockpiles WHEN THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SHUT DOWN?

When you can answer those questions, then we can talk.

I suggest you take your own advice and practice some austerity. It is something that conservatives LOVE to espouse, but it seems they are LOATH to practice. It might be a good time to start practicing what you preach.

Pro-Life for Living! WE should be included too!!

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:08am

You continue to process food through a diversity of plants; plants in different regional locations with different capacities. It is no surprise that the first meat packing plants knocked out were among the largest. Lots of workers cheek by jowl. Those plants will have to be reconfigured for today's reality, but they have to come back on line or people are going to go hungry. The food processing industry will learn how to protect workers by doing.

The meat packing plants give us an opportunity to develop work configurations and practices which will protect the fruit and vegetable plant workers later this year. The rest of American business & industry is going to have to learn how to protect its workers on the fly. They can't learn anything when they are shut down, so you might as well let them reopen at their own pace and share the successful worker protection methodologies they develop.

You seem to believe that lockdowns can end COVID-19 infections. Michigan's first lockdown, XO 2020-21 certainly didn't end COVID-19 diagnoses. Cumulative diagnoses zoomed up from 1,328 at the outset of XO 2020-21 to the 28,059 reported yesterday. Lockdowns don't end COVID-19 infections, they don't even slow them down. There are too many exceptions in the lockdowns, but people have to be able to buy their lottery tickets, weed, and liquor.

You seem to believe the lockdown spared many sickness and death which they would have otherwise experienced. No, it didn't. Unless there is a vaccine or other game changer, lockdowns just increase the pool of victims who will be struck down in the second and subsequent waves of infection. Will there be a vaccine? Who knows? After 40 years, we don't have an HIV vaccine. It is poor public policy to put all your eggs in one basket.

Matt G.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:55am

"XO 2020-21 certainly didn't end COVID-19 diagnoses. Cumulative diagnoses zoomed up from 1,328 at the outset of XO 2020-21 to the 28,059 reported yesterday. Lockdowns don't end COVID-19 infections, they don't even slow them down. "

You definitely haven't bothered to understand exponential math, but since your reasoning is clearly based on a political ideology I'm not surprised you're willing to ignore facts and science. Doubling time for this virus without lockdowns is about 3-4 days. 1,328 cases after 3 weeks of doubling every 3 days is almost 170,000 cases (1328 doubled 7 times). So, clearly the lockdowns are actually working if we have less than 30,000 confirmed cases.

We also don't have enough testing to know how many cases there actually are. Certainly there are many more, and were many more than 1,328 when Whitmer issued the order. Recent scientific papers have suggested we've only been catching about 6% of the actual cases, and you think we're ready to just open up and reverse the trend?


Numbers of new cases are falling, so the order is working. We should reopen parts of the economy soon, and as safely as possible, but not quite yet. We need contact tracing systems, fast and widely available testing, and lots of masks for the public. I agree with you that a vaccine is far enough off that lockdowns are not sustainable, but our healthcare workers' own health and well being won't be sustainable either unless we keep the spread minimized.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:53am

The mathematics of an epidemic are a geometric progression, where some portion of yesterday's total infected go on to infect more people. This can be modeled as an exponential equation, but it really isn't because fairly quickly infection becomes limited along directional lines and symptomatic infecteds are no longer able to play a role in spreading infection.

"Doubling time for this virus without lockdowns is about 3-4 days. 1,328 cases after 3 weeks of doubling every 3 days is almost 170,000 cases (1328 doubled 7 times). So, clearly the lockdowns are actually working if we have less than 30,000 confirmed cases."

You know this how? This assumes you know the percentage of asymptomatic spreaders and the basic reproduction number. Everyone has been guessing at these two key parameters and no two guesses agree. The U of W IHME models, which were supposed to be the gold standard of projection, were way over, by orders of magnitude. This drove the shutdown panic across the country.

One of the routine mistakes in the mechanistic analyses that produce outrageous numbers is an assumption that the basic reproduction ratio is a constant. It isn't. At the outset, virus particles traveling in any direction can find victims to infect. After a while, you have islands of infected who cannot be reinfected, so only virus particles headed on certain outbound directions are successful. And people adopt anti infection practices on their own, some of which actually work.

The success of lockdowns is validly disputed. Compare the statistics for Norway (serious lockdown) to Sweden (no lockdown). Factor out Sweden having twice the population of Norway and their results are indistinguishable. You could even compare Michigan to Sweden, now that Sweden has large numbers of minorities.

There doesn't appear to be any evidence that Michigan's rate of new diagnoses is declining. With no vaccine on the horizon, Michigan's top priority should be starting up factories making protective equipment like masks and suits. We need meltblown polypropylene nonwoven textile lines yesterday and mask finishing lines now.

You and the other skeptics would be much more amenable to restarting factories if quality PPE was cheap and plentiful. That is our common ground. But the engine of the economy has to start, and start soon, or really bad things will happen.

Jut Do It
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 6:54am

Please write or call the WH and ask the President to invoke the Defense Production Act to produce the tests we need to open our economy.

Stephen Miller
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:02am

Karen, why don't you stop ordering us around? If I want to leave the house, that's my right- you're not my mom. You don't get to control what people can say and not say, as much as you have frequently and repeatedly expressed your desire to do so- people have rights to free speech, whether you like it or not. So go back to laying out back near your pool and stop being such a Karen.

Stephanie Miller
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:26pm

Back off, Nancy! Make room for the Sexy Liberal Show! Love ya, Gretchen!

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 5:46pm

Their irresponsible actions endanger not only their own but other people’s health and lives. Reasonable adults exercise self-regulation and executive function for the greater good.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 6:33pm

Exactly which is why people at big risk should willingly be quarantined and we should lock down Metro Detroit, Flint and Ann Arbor where 90% of the cases are! Right?

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:54pm

No, but the Orange man should stop flights into and out of all cities.

middle of the mit
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 10:37pm

How are you going to lock down those city areas? The Governor "supposedly locked down the State" and a LOT of them fled here last Friday, the day before the lockdown.

And what of those who just "patriotically defy orders"?

Watch as it comes up north.

There are a lot of deniers up here. And if it is all fake, it will be all good. But if it isn't, and it starts taking hold in our retired and poor community, people aren't going to blame FOX news or the President. They aren't going to blame CNN or any cable network. They may blame the Governor, but only for not doing as you suggested earlier.

But do you know who they are really going to blame it on?

Cabin owners.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 7:06am

Most Michiganders are being respectful to their fellow citizens and conscientiously staying at their primary homes to protect people around their cabins, but not the snowbirds. They don't really care and ironically, they tend to be older, richer, more Republicons. They just came back here from Florida, Arizona, Georgia to enjoy a refreshing Michigan summer, too hot for them at their winter homes in states where governors don't give a s... about COVID transmission.

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:46am


While most of what you say is true, those who come up here who have "cabins" aren't self quarantining for 14 days at all.

And as for the snowbirds? I understand. My grandparents are stuck in Florida because they won't fly home and most of our family is pushing for them stay put. Even though we may not see one or more of them again. It is better than them dying from this virus.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:33pm

Except all those states had way lower incidences of the virus than do we. BTW March and April in Michigan sucks!

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:30pm

So leave.

Nowhere to Here
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:33pm

Except people in Northern Michigan don't want those irresponsible snowbirds back. Guess there's going to be a little tension in North Country. HEE HEE

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:36pm

Baracades! Why let Detroiters, Flintites and Ann Arborists spread death?

So Apparent
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:27pm

Why let the protesters? Um you see your flawed logic?

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 2:53pm


And you think you righties are having a fit now? Can you imagine your rage if she did something like that?

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 8:22pm

I wonder if she or her fellow Democrats even consider the Bill of Rights when they wrote their 'lockdown orders' [Governor of New Jersey openly acknowledged, last night Tucker Carlson on FOX News, that he never gave it a thought and said that is above his 'pay grade'.].

middle of the mit
Fri, 04/17/2020 - 4:37pm

duane, (or since reality and facts and truth are what I perceive it to be, can I call you obtuse?)

I have no idea exactly what you are complaining about. If you read the thread, and understand a common language (this is why conservatives like to say English should be the official language so that we all have a common understanding of what words mean as opposed to deciding we can perceive words to be whatever we want them to be, Can you understand that?)

Matt is a conservative. Now there is someone else who posts as Matt, but that person has started putting a G after their name so as not be confused with the dummy who doesn't know how unemployment works. That conservative Matt is the one that called for blockades in the cities.

I am the one who correctly pointed out the udder rage you cons would have if she had done it.

I know you go on perception, But I wouldn't trust Tucker as far as I could throw that tucker.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 6:25pm

George Orwell's book 1984 had a line in it that went "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." Strange to think that half of Michigan's population wants the boot. I can only assume they lack critical thinking skills or just plain intelligence. What will you do when the virus returns multiple times and the vaccine 18 months away, is only partially effective, like current flu vaccines which are partially effective? Hide in your house forever? Make yourself a prisoner, along with everyone else? We require common sense leadership, not tyranny. I applaud the people that went to Lansing today and condemn the propogandists that seek political advantage from the current pandemic.

Kevin Grand
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:38pm

Given the number of streets with MULTI-MILE BACKUPS leading up to the Capitol (Ms. Beggin couldn't walk a few blocks in any direction to corroborate this), there is a significant percentage of Michigan's population who are way past fed up with Gov. Karen's shenanigans!

And that crowd was still there just after 6:30 this afternoon when I left, even though the event was to have ended at 2pm.

Elected officials in multiple communities around Michigan are also getting fed up with Gov. Karen's inability to issue any clear direction. MDOT can hydroseed freeways, but someone cannot keep down the insect and rodent population by hiring someone to run a lawnmower across their lawn?


Oh the Pain
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:57pm

I seriously wonder if all these protesters are just homeless people who don't think they'll get their government cheese.

Tree Cutter
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 10:53pm

Hello... let’s make this real simple for you. They want to go back to work to earn money since the government lock-down put them out of work. Perhaps working is a strange concept to you. You may want to try it one day. It improves your self worth and aids society at the same time. Granted it’s not as fun as insulting people.

Learn Love
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 7:16am

God gives self worth, not a job. Learn patience. Look inside yourself for your esteem. This temporary situation must be hard for you because it challenges all the failed ideology you have accepted. Even people without a job deserve respect and healthcare. People who make little money in the gig economy deserve healthcare. You don't want that restaurant worker preparing your food or the nursing home caregiver of your mother to have COVID19. When they are sick, it threatens you and your loved ones. Same goes for homeless and undocumented workers picking your fruit. Human worth is not defined by their job or how much money they make.

Kevin Grand
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:45am

Driving their own cars/trucks/minivans/Semi-Trucks?

It's too bad, the "objective" reporters couldn't be bothered to take a walk a few blocks in any direction from the Capitol Building yesterday.
I know, I know, it destroys the narrative that they are trying to promote.

How does earning your own living (an concept alien to Gov. Karen and every democrat), equate to gov't cheese?

Your logic makes no sense.

To Nancy
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:36pm

If you get some schooling, you might learn to make dollars, not cents.

Average guy
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 8:10pm

She keeps going back to how many people have to touch a fuel pump as a reason for banning things. Then why not require all operating gas stations to have someone pump your gas for you? Wouldn't that eliminate most of the problem not only for the boaters, the landscapers, and cabin owners but also make it safer for nurses and doctors and all other people deemed essential?

middle of the mit
Wed, 04/15/2020 - 10:19pm

Full service gas stations are a good idea. Station owners should be implementing this on their own.

But that won't work for boats. You can't believe that the State can afford to put DNR officers at every boat launch to launch everyones boat for them. Not only that but then more people go boating and the same officer has to touch everyones boat to launch and and trailer and then you accomplish nothing but the same spread that would happen anyway, which is what is trying to be prevented.

The landscapers I think could do their job if they only allowed over the phone payment.

The cabin owners can stay home. That is where they hang their hat.

Wed, 04/15/2020 - 9:00pm

"House Speaker Lee Chatfield, R-Levering, opposes some of the restrictions and told reporters Wednesday he trusted protestors to demonstrate safely. " Just goes to show how dimwitted Chatfield is . Many protester didn't stay in their cars and didn't wear masks. They deserve what they get. I feel sorry for their families, now more than ever. They are so reckless with their malice.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 5:35am

Of course they did not demonstrate "safely." Why should they? They are very special and they have guns and flags to protect them. Guess what? Guns and flags do not protect you from a virus.

These people are of the same mind set as the behavior I see in my my neighborhood constantly - gatherings in the park, playing contact sports, constant visiting each other's home, going to church. Absolutely, "they deserve what they get." However, the problem is that they will be infecting people who ARE trying to be responsible. Why? They think that the virus will not attack them because, "I value my freedom, or, "God will protect me," or the myriad number of other, non-scientific reasons that they simply do not care about anyone other than themselves. This is utter selfishness and extremely dangerous to all of us. Like it or not, the reality is that we live in a society and what people do affects others. Their freedom to irresponsibly spread infection needs to end where my freedom to be safe and healthy begins.

I know someone who died from COVID yesterday. Sure, staying home/being bored, and acting responsibly are just so "hard." Harder than dying? Really?

So true
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:38pm

I think Trump Derangement Syndrome, abnormal love of Trump, is real. No critical thinking when you ignore science and blindly follow your feckless leader off a cliff.

Stop insanity
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:42pm

Trump lover and governor of Florida, DeSantis, says pro-wrestling is essential service. Guys touching guys is essential, eh Kevin, Matt, et al?
Google it.

Jim L.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:02am

There were far greater than 4,000 people. Incoming freeways and main roads were backed up for miles, for hours. It was pretty epic. The cops are on our side so of course they didn't cite anyone, they are just as pissed of by this tyranny as we are. It has made it nearly impossible for them to do their real jobs as well as causing a massive increase in domestic violence incidents which take a great deal of time and care to deal with.

All of you people freaking out about the chinese flu and believing that it was a good idea to destroy the economy in order to save sick elderly and fat people need to sit down, shut up, and remember who feeds you (and who own all the guns!) - The Conservatives. The Silent Majority that wasn't so silent today in Michigan. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

If you don't like it here, move to china. You'll love it there. They tell you how to think and dissapear or brainwash you if you don't comply. Since you're already used to brainwashing, this should be quite familiar to you.

middle of the mit
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:10pm

Jim L,

The only incidents police should be dealing with more is the domestic violence. I would think with the rest of the country shut down, that would be the only thing they have to deal with. And it is sad they have to do that when people are supposed to home with the people they claim to love.

And as far as gun ownership goes? I am still unsure whether or not I should be worried about conservatives with guns. Why? You need an AR-15 with a 30 round clip to hit anything.

And that silent generation that you talk about? Those are the people that we are trying to save, along with the sick and fat people that you don't seem to care about.

And how does rural America feed America without supplies from urban America? Do you really think the rural farmers are going to back to oxen to plow their fields?

If you don't like it here, you can move to Mississippi. It seems as though that is the republican Government you have been yearning for your entire life.....you just don't like the economic stagnation. Isn't that why you live in a liberal taxhole? To make money so you can retire in the hinterlands?

Pro-life for the living! WE would like to be included too!!!

A Yooper
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:08am


Thu, 04/16/2020 - 11:51am

Darwin Award candidates, all of them.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:09am

This is a very sad day for Michigan. We have nurses, doctors, grocery store workers, bus drivers .... in harm's way every day and dying to keep people alive and this is the thanks they get. So very sad. All because they cannot go to Home Depot or whatever it is that they feel is their "God-given right". It's even sadder that there was not this amount of protest and outrage when the Snyder administration poisoned the water supply of thousands of people.

Jim L.
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:33am

No - It was a great day - The death rate for COVID is somewhere between 0.1% and 0.4% which puts it between "a normal flu season" and "a really bad flu season". This is fact. Look at the newest study in Germany. Even if you are incredibly generous and call every person who died with COVID antibodies in their system a "coronavirus death", it still comes in at only 0.4%, but in reality, many of those deaths were happening with or without the infection which puts reality closer to 0.2%. This is no worse than the 2017 flu season when we lost nearly 100,000 people in a few months. Nobody freaked out back then!

Agreed, but....
Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:28pm

Then why is Trump making such big deal of this? Why does he go on TV everyday talking for hours about it? Why did he stop his campaign rallies? Is Trump lying or just dumb? These are serious questions. Please respond.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:32am

Bridge, Did your photographer miss the protesters with the Trump and Confederate flags or guns? Or the protesters blatantly not practicing social distancing? Or talk to the healthcare workers at Sparrow, the hospital blocked by these protests? These are the same selfish people who don’t wear masks and get too close in grocery and other stores. That’s why Governor Whitmer shut down more with this order. She is saving lives and protecting our health care and frontline workers unlike these selfish individuals, who most likely spread it among themselves and across the state. We’ll most likely be shut down longer now. Sad! Do better Bridge-you’re being very partisan.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 9:34am

I hope those who chose to block traffic realize it may have prevented some essential employees from getting to work and it may have even cost some lives. Take your signs and protest and wear a mask. At least let people who need to be at work get there. R.L.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 10:59am

So Rep. Chatfield was confident the protesters would demonstrate safely. Apparently many of them have about as much common sense as he does. Protesters carrying assault rifles and pistols on Capitol grounds is kind of like Mr. Chatfield bringing a loaded handgun on a flight.

Hell Ya
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:44pm

Or just insisting on gathering for church service.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 1:13pm

Whitmer went a bit too far with the latest restrictions, but has done nothing to justify this circus.

The political rally consisted of the usual right wing rabble: Tea Party, NRA gun advocates, Trumpsters, various militia, all chomping at the bit to protest something.

A bunch of them should have been ticketed for flaunting the 6 foot separation requirement. You got to wonder how many contracted the virus at this rally and how many others will become infected because of contact with these careless people.

DH andrews
Thu, 04/16/2020 - 7:26pm

"The sad irony here is that the protest was that they don't like being in this stay-home order and they may have just created a need to lengthen it," Whitmer said at an afternoon press conference.

Governor, as long as your actions are necessary and protective and not punitive .

I only mention this because you have spoken in the past of certain of your orders being punitive in nature.

No one in this country should ever be punished or chastised for engaging in rightful activities under the first amendment to our U.S. Constitution and Article 1, sec. 3 of our Michigan Constitution

Sec. 3.Assembly, consultation, instruction, petition.
The people have the right peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, to instruct their representatives and to petition the government for redress of grievances.

Thu, 04/16/2020 - 8:40pm

Funny now they claim precautions in the time of a PANDEMIC are political games, yet they parade their idiot Trump signs and their confederate loser surrender flags.

Fri, 04/17/2020 - 4:29pm

But it does look like it has helped her see there is more to her proclamations than just the words, and the people read them and take them seriously.
I have to agree with you about the political games, in January when it was most critical to be investigating Covid 19 Debbie and Gary and all the US Senate, and all the media were focused on the Democrats impeachment of the President and that seems to have set the tone since then. President Trump was meeting with the health experts Drs. Fauci and Brix and their support talking about the virus and what to do. And as soon as President Trump took action [ban travel from China] the Democrat's and media started in on calling it racist and it has continued ever since, now it has move to blaming those with personal concerns being demeaned as political and given no credit for taking Governor Whitmer's proclamation literally and believing they will be arrested and fine for buying or selling paint, buying or selling seeds.

You are right it is political games and it is fortunate it seems some in Washington and walking/driving the streets of Lansing think past those games and are making things happen. Now that President Trump and his task force have established the criteria for opening the local economies those who only a few days ago saw no hope are now talking about beginning opening up Michigan in May. It sure suggests a good leader, with a bit of thought and a good team can frame thing so we can all get on the path to success.

Sat, 04/18/2020 - 6:34pm

Yeah, I thought the confederates lost? Why would you people be proud to wave that loser flag, especially in Michigan? I mean, our people killed your people so you would give up your slaves. You lost all that money and financing when you were trading in human beings.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 10:48am

They went to the wrong capital! I saw Trump on TV and he said he has absolute power and control of when to open up the states and the economy. Why are they in Lansing? Gas is cheap, they could make the drive to DC to tell Trump to open up business!

Dave P.
Sun, 04/19/2020 - 7:27pm

And so we descend further into tribalism and the decline of civility and American culture.....

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 9:04pm

Is tribalism what we attribute tot he native Americans or other indigenous people's around the world? Is that what the 'European' settlers are demonized for defeating? It is another name for 'nationalism' that globalists so disdain? Is partisanship a version of 'tribalism'? Is the past three years of attack on our Republican President by the Democrats across out country an element of that tribalism? Is regionalism [Great Lakes, Midwest, South, East Coast, West Coast, Californians, Texans, New Yorkers, Michiganders] a form of tribalism?
Which 'tribes' are you part of?
As for 'civility', I know the Democrats define it as agreement with their demands, how do you define it?
The part of the American culture I most appreciate us the competition of ideas, which is built on the diversity of perspective, competition and diversity by their nature evoke emotions. Emotions are the antithesis of civility.

Sun, 04/19/2020 - 10:13pm

I noticed that a lot of those protesting carried hand guns and rifles openly. I imagine if black protesters did the same what the outcome would be? You may not agree with the order but it is a simple remedy to get rid of the virus. Instead of being a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist — realize that these governors do not have bad intent when they ask us to stay home. Learn how to do your own hair for the time being, etc... Take this time as opportunity to learn new hobbies and skills, catch up on rest, etc. There’s so much that this unique time can be used for. Be patient. Everything will work out. Appreciate and enjoy spending more time at home until this passes.